Oh lil’ poopsykins. I did write nelves. It’s just that small enclave that return, magecraft is no longer their core thing, and it was their concious choice as a nation.
OH did not see that my bad. Yeah thats true.
Just lorewise it still fits to play NE mage.
I don’t deny it hence I included it but it’s not longer on the same level it used to be. And now you have shelves for that mage-nelf trope.
Sadly, but true! I concede : )
I never pick my races or classes based on lore.
I choose my race by whatever pleases me aesthetically at the moment, which of course means Void Elf Disney Princess with loud and ridiculously big guns. I only play Hunter because I have lost interest in playing more than 1 character by the end of WoD.
If I gave a ![:dolphin:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/dolphin.png?v=6" ":dolphin:")
about the lore when it comes to my characters, I would probably play a Human Paladin or Warrior.
2 Likes
I like your list!
Here’s my pick for class combos. (These are just my personal preferences.)
Warrior: Orc, Night Elf, Dwarf
Paladin: Human, Draenei (including Lightforged.)
Hunter: Blood Elf, Night Elf, Human, Dwarf
Rogue: Forsaken.
Priest: Night Elf, Blood Elf, Void Elf (S priest.)
Shaman: Dwarf, Orcs, Tauren
Mage: Nightborne, Night Elf, Blood Elf
Warlock: Forsaken, Blood Elf
Monk: Pandaren.
Druid: Tauren, Night Elf
DK: Orcs (considering that the first DK’s were technically orcs.), Blood Elf, Human, Forsaken
2 Likes
I’ve often tried to u understand what is going on with the night elf priest and druid arcane spells during the long vigil.
It is an interesting mystery that hasn’t been clarified.
We know arcane spells were banned during the long vigil to hide Azeroth from the legi on
This was because magecraft or sorcery used the well to power their spells and this lit the Well and Azeroth as a beacon in the twisting nether that attracted demons - this is how they came.
We first see the Priesteses use starfall in wc3, when the demons have already returned, the balance druids using arcane spells is also revealed in wow classic after the long vigil is ended.
This could mean they never used those spells during the long vigil because they were arcane, but we don’t know, because we haven’t seen them during the long vigil.
Another explanation could be the night elves cast these spells from the moon and stars as a source, not Azeroth or the Well of Eternity, they therefore don’t light up Azeroth unlike magecraft/sorcery whose spells drew from the Well. Night elves probably defined sorcery by this, and so banning sorcery that was the solution, but that does not extend to those spells.
A 3rd which is not mutually exclusive from the 2nd, is that night elf druids and priests have them cast by Elune’s power. However, this would simply mean the source of the power was Elune and not the stars/moon which makes no difference becasue in either case, the spells won’t be coming from the Well of Eternity. Elune is not known to bestow powers though, she cna be the inspiration for powers, but then arcane spells don’t work that way, light/shadow faith based spells do. 3rdly prayers access Goddess’ powers, and starfall/moonfire/starfire etc aren’t prayer spells. Druids don’t pray to Elune, although they may beesech her perhaps,
it is more likely this spellwork comes from the night elves when they first explored the arcane and discovered Elune and were learning, they learnt how to draw arcane power to cast spells like moonfire/starfall etc, it is quite possible the Goddess first showed them how to do these spells, and Cenarius showed the druids some other types, there is nothing to suggest he can only cast nature spells, we see dryads cast other type of spells, as well as creatures like Faerie dragons and Moonkin - night elves could have learnt how to cast these spells like these animals do. These creatures werne’t banned from using arcane spells nor were there usage in danger of drawing the legion either… this i suspect is because only the magecraft/sorcery advance spells that draw from the Well were the ones that were banned… and simpler spells like Moonfire/Starfall that also don’t draw their power from the Well but from the stars/moon won’t be banned at all. Fans put forward the elune explanation because they are trying to explain how arcane spells are used by a presthood and druidic order that banned the use of arcane. however they almost always to understand the finer details of the ban on aracne. Which are mainly that it was a prohibition of spell casting from the well and it was to prevent the legion from returning, not to end all spell casting or out of some hate for the arcane.
Yes, that was nice, we did, but like so many things we are shown, but not really shown, so we saw their temple, but we still don’t know how their order operates, their tenets, we don’t quite know what its about like we do for druids and the arcane or even fel.
Seeing Tyrande run around Suramar as an avatar of Elune, calling down stars and moon on demons, and tranquil moonshade on distraught nightborne, sating chronic withdrawal and staying devolution into withered while under the light of the moon, would have been awesome. To see parts of the city like hte moon gems, come alive with silver starlight when the high priestess and her preists went through would have been awesome, seeing her inspire hope in many of the dis-enfranchised shal’dorei and the oppressed, and become number one enemy for Elisande and the Legion, but always seeming to evade capture.
This would have been seeing the priesthood in action, instead of shooting bows and advertising for the Alliance -something that much better fits Vereesa Windrunner.
Then advancing to 7.2 and seeing the priesthood of Elune leading the order halls in the broken shore campaign - with unlocking the temple buffs, travel discs and utilising the Cathedral of Eternal night. Being the ones guiding them through parts of both the raid and the dungeon.
Could have had so much lore. And then see a bunch of nightborne who were acolytes and trainees when the shield went up, finally complete their training and being tasked to lead their people in the Light of Elune.
What a missed opportunity…
Yeah, I guess there is so much they could do, but never have time to do it, because they are mainly foused on just hte main things. But they need all these other things, because it is a huge world, and there is a lot of important detail that a large number of groups and characters would generate.
That’s simply because blizzard made it so. They could have based the MMO on the WC3 developments, rather than compress them again. Other games manage multiple factions just fine. And they had a really good advancement of the Wc1 & 2 two faction system when WC3 came out. WoW could have been even 5 factions or made every race their own faction. or just the main 4 from wc3.
I know its 2, but atm, it is so revolved around everything for the factions, and humans just outright dominate the alliance, everyone else is secondary, it feels like the human kingdom, and it stupidly reduces the night elves, turning races into 1-trick ponies - Draenei provide priest, night elves druids, eveyrone has one thing, but humans have a full range - it diminishes a lot of what should have been improved.
I guess you could still have 2 factions and bring out hte races a lot better, display them, characterise them, rame their reelvance and thier importance much better, rather htan just centre everything on humans for hte alliance.
Not humans? I mean warrior is one of their key signature classes: Warrior, priest, mage and paladin.
We first knew them as warriors, then mages, then priests and paladins.
ala LotR style, like hobbits, agreed there.
No human warlocks? they are big on the warlock class hall.
Very thorough response, thanks for that.
They have regular footmen and soldiers, but I dunno I never found them to be “THE” warriors. An unstoppable force with brute strenght. So while people aren’t wrong in picking them I personally never found them to be tempting option because of how they don’t have any defining traits, unlike dwarves or tauren.
Maybe in class hall they have numbers, but I cannot recall any big warlock figure. The last thing I encountered was Medivh opening dark portal. And that they have some warlocks in Stormwind basement but I cannot recall for warlock to be defining racial thing. If you’ll grant me one interesting example I’ll correct my list.
Belves were siphoning fel from crystal and draining creatures for mana, Orcs had shadow council, gnomes are extremely intelligent creatures that would search for various magics even the darkest ones, they’re not just tinkers.
But I forgot to add goblins, as making deals (even with demons) is their thing too.
They don’t have the brute strength warrior , that build is more for Orc and Tauren, but they have the skilled swordsmen and mounted cavalry.
Anduin Lothar, King Wrynn - 2 of the human alliances greatest champions and most important characters are Warriors, not to mention most of their fighting force are warriors, unlike races like elves who are full of spell casters and bowmen/rangers.
1 Like
Yeah I get it, and as I said people for picking them aren’t wrong if anything any race can be warrior so long it knows how to vield a sword.
If anything almost every race has a track of good warrior figures. Heck humans recently had Varian even, but might be just me, but I prefer the more barbarian cultures. anyway good point, I’ll edit this part.
And night elves in the same category as gnomes for mages? You realise a good portion of Azeroths greatst mages are night elves. Queen Azshara, Illidan, Xavius, Darth’remar Sunstrider, Elisande, Prince Farondis - to name a few. The race has the longest list of established mage characters. Don’t let the Darnassian Long vigil mage-less era fool you, remember the shen’dralar and Moonguard continued in that stong arcane tradition if the long vigil gorup do not, and remember that the Darnassians are now trained by them. Also do not forget it was the night elves that developed Azeroths most advanced magical civilization, and night elves of that culture are still around in the Shen’dralar and Moonguard as well as the Farondis. Not to mention the new generation been trained by the Shen’dralar and the Darnassian’s who returned to their highborne status after 10,000 years.
We see blizzard show us fair number of night elf mages in WoD, Talador, Ashran, we also see good chunk of night elf arcane lore from Suramar, Azsuna in Legion as well as in the demon hunters, add to that the night elves you again see in WoT, and in the alliance as mages in Kul’tiras and Zuldazar.
In Suramar, court of stars, do you forget that both night elves and blood elves can use the mage buff tool. And lest everyone forget, Malfurion Stormrage was quite handy with spells before he learnt druidsm from Cenarius if you read the war of the ancients.
But then night elves are the ones made from the arcane, and still connected to the Well of Eternity, just saying, that race is going to be exceptional as mages, whenever they decide to go down that path.
There are more notable night elf mages than blood elves, and i woudln’t be surprised if the number known mages were close in number.
Yes, I put them in same category because we’re talking about current nelves. That lived for 10k years without arcane and who were ready to kill practitioners.
We also know that recently joined nelves are far behind when it comes to sorcery that belves mocked them for it.
So I belive that gnomes could be slightly ahead themselves too as many of them were studying in dalaran.
Besides, in Horde section I did include belves and shelves as the post highborne caste, that specialize in magic.
Your examples are long gone, Azshara is now giant squid, Xavius became warlock and satyr, and now is dead, Farondins dead, Illidan is DH now, Sunstrider is dead, Elisande dead and that is shelfie not nelfie. And Moonguard is disbanded.
I know that you’re fixated on nelf mages, but that is the entire point why belves exist and now NB joined. This is where you have magi elves and descendants of the Highborne.
Current nelves have different core features.
Yes, but many of those night elves are current night elves, and many of them have been around over 10,000 years even if some of them changed… And remember as the player night elf, you could be any of those. The point is as a night elf mage, you’re not of the druid or priest group who went off arcane for 10k years, your of the mage group who have embraced it, either after a 10k year break or never giving it up as a shen’dralar, or moonguard or even an illidari in a roundabout way.
Whether the current night elf mages are small fraction or a large fraction of the current night elves, they are still a prolific arcane wielding group and the founding, greatest users the art. Night elves who became nightborne and night elves who remained in the arcane are on par as the oldest and most knowledgeable/prolific arcane users amongst the playable Azeroth native races in warcraft. And those who are new to it are noted
Well they were novices a few weeks into training, and the arrogant blood elf found it laughable that these night elves were choosing now to come into their heritage, but his female counterpart was terrified at the prospect of the night elves embracing their arcane heritage again, because how talented they are.
one thing that immediately strikes you is how much they’ve grasped in so short a time, even if it still had exploitable holes, it was very impressive for a few weeks training. He behaves as if intelligent races can’t learn a new skill for the first time if taught, the player character would be one for example, not to mention that he should be aware of the arcane affinity of the night elves. Just because that group hasn’t practised t for 10,000 years doesn’t mean they are any less talented or gifted - and he should have been aware that the Darnassians not having practised magic for 10,000 years would only be a temporary drawback given they had teachers who hadn’t stopped practising magic full of lost/hidden knowledge to the known world in the Shen’dralar. Secondly being in the alliance, even without the shen’dralar, the human and high elves as well as the Draenei were available to teach these talented elves magic, and it wouldn’t be long till they were caught up with what they needed to know.
Yes you did, but I was surprised you didn’t include Forsaken, they are just as prolific, and highly talented too with magic, as much as humans, i’d have htem there.
The point is that all these are famous night elves. Azshara may be a squid now, but she is notorious for magic as a night elf. Same as Illidan, Xavius, Elisande doens’t even look like a nightborne in player model though she is, showing you how little differnece htere is between nightborne and night elf. But yes she is dead.
And the Moonguard is not disbanded. Where did you hear that.?
I am not, I just find it necessary to keep reminding people that the night elf is about both arcane and nature, this means i have to bring up the arcane a lot more, because it is the least acknowledged and forgotten.
No it isn’t, blood elves are their own race, and nightborne are not a replacement for night elves, they’re just night elves on the horde. It’s like saying now Draenei are here as priests, humans don’t need them, because that’s the entire point of Draenei. Blood elf magecraft doesn’t invalidate or make night elf magocracy irrelevant any more than it makes high elf mages or human mages un-neccessary - any more than blood elf rangers or priests make night elf rangers or priests unnecessary or blood elf paladins make high elf or humans.
And the night elven magi are also magi elves, and they have actual highborne magi, not just descendants. Just because the descendants exist, doesn’t invalidate or mean the actual highborne aren’t mages…that’s a bit silly.
current night elves have core features in the arcane (highborne), in fel (demon hunters), nature (druids), the divine (priests) and ranger skills (hunters/sentinels.
these are their cores with very defined and extensive lore in ALL of these areas, these are not mutually exclusive sets with other races, just because night elves have arcane and nautre, doesn’t mean other races do not.
Blood elves have arcane (mages), the light (paladin/priests), ranger skills (hunters) are their core features. Just because they have aracne doesn’t mean night elves do not, just because their paladin numbers are small doesn’t mean it is not a core part of their race or they don’t have a strong identity, neither is something not a major part because it may be newer.
Don’t think that because the darnassian group seem to have smaller night elf mages means the arcane or mage craft is not a core feature of the night elf, it is quite, same with the illidari fel. This is a small group, but the demon hunter lore, is nearly as large and has had nearly as much time and stuff written on it as the druidic side, and has had more attention given to it htan the night elf priesthood. In terms of volume, even though you see many more night elf preists than demon hunters.
- Presumed numbers is not a definitive indicator or measure of it being a core feature (see highborne night elves or Illidari - after the genocide in the WoT, there may be as more if not more mages than druids or sentinels amongst the night elves.)
- Nor is how recent a field is to a group the measure of it being core (see blood knight paladins to blood elves).
You look at the ngiht elves, their origin from the arcane, the total racial aptitutde affinity, devleopment, of the arcane, it is as much a core as nature, whether the numbers are few or many, whether new darnassians have come into it or not, and tha’ts not even factoring the very old shen’dralar, farondis and moonguard.
1 Like
Kalibas, for crying out loud. You know that I hate the textwalls. Can’t you write like 2 lines of summary rather than writing essays each time? Are you writing Ph.D. on Night elven culture or something?
You’re free to disagree, but my opinion stands. Nelves are no longer about mages and sorcery, and haven’t been for past 10k years. They’re far behind on this field to other races.
I’m pretty sure even Darkspear would woop ar$e of nelven mage. Simply because their resumption for arcane practice is so recent and fresh.
Assumption that “just because I had something in the past means that I am proficient in it now” doesn’t work with them and in general. It’s like saying that current Egyptians are good with mummification.
And I disagree that Arcane is their core feature, that’s bollocks because for 10k years they were hunting down and imprisoning those that didn’t stop arcane usage. Demon hunters aren’t also core nelven thing. They’re rogue faction that severed ties with their kin.
There is a difference between society and rogue elements.
3 Likes
Okay, I listed a few reasons why this was the case. Sorry about the essays, but they are usually essays because i am giving exhaustive responses in discussions. And half the time they are the abridged version, it’s just that there are many points to make and i tend to include them all. If you and others don’t reasd them because they along, it kinda makes this repetitive.
I would ask you to read it through for a change, and see if you can find what I mean.
They very much are, they are a core part of night elf lore. You can say they are not a major part of the Daranssian night elf group, because htey are not a part of it, but the demon hunter and it’s lore is a core part of the night elves. The huge role of Illidan through the WotA is as large as Malfurion’s, he takes a good chunk of the night elf story in WC3 and TFT again, he stars in Outland, He is the entire focus of his book after his name, and then the role of demon hunters is as larger than that of the Wardens in Legion.
it’s just the the demon hunters haven’t played a role in the druid society, but they have in their own, and are a significant elite force of the night elves, though one that hasn’t worked with the established government for famous reasons.
1 Like
I didn’t deny it, but we play common nelves, the one that came from WC3. And they didn’t have mages and only Illidan was DH back in time.
I am separating demon hunters from night elves therefore, because Illidari aren’t affilated with playable nelves.
Just like death Knights, plenty of races can play as them, but they’re not part of any of their culture, because they’re separate faction on their own the moment they became undead.
Unless you’re gonna tell me that goblin DK is part of goblin lore because goblins dks are playable. I know that it’s not really fair comparision but I needed to make a point.
And I’m tired. Feel free to disagree, but I won’t change my opinion on nelf mages, and while DHs are a class created by nelf they’re not part of nelven society. In fact this is the reason why I didn’t even included DHs on the list, there are only 2 options, both are valid, but doesn’t really matter as they’re separate faction in itself. And now quite irrevelant.
Warrior: Humans, Dworf, Draenei, lightforged, dark iron, kul tirans, worgen /Orc, Tauren, Troll or zandalari.
Paladin: Human,Draenei,Lightforged,Dworf/ Zandalari, junk elve paladins except people like Arathor the redeemer are a joke.
Hunter: Humans ,dworf , worgen, rendorei/ Tauren, troll, undead are decent huntmaster and junk elve but the class is very open so even a draenei or alied race except shaldorei well done could fit.
Rogue: Humans have a long tradition,history and abilities as assassin, spy and thiefery and are some of the most skilled npc wise, rendorei, worgen , dworf /Orcs, undead, goblins, Troll could do great thief and assassins with discipline and training.
Priest: Humans, Draenei, dworf ,Lightforged maybe even Kul tiran.
Shaman: Draenei,dworf and dark iron/ Tauren, Orcs, Trolls too are great and underrated shaman bias aside.
Mage: Humans,Rendorei, Gnomes /Junk Elf , Shaldorei
Warlock: Humans, / Orcs, undead maybe even goblin.
Monk: Pandaren lok the best imho
Druid: Worgen, kul tiran , charcaldorei and Tauren.
DK: Humans, dworfs, and probably others with a good backstory and well done/orcs, junk elves, undead.
More to be added or removed later.
Oh and demon hunter wannabe who partake with demons and their pwers are fine obviously with charcoaldrei and junk elves.
No you ddin’t deny it, it’s more like the criteria I use to qualify somethinga s a core feature to a race is different than whaty ou were using.
On re-reading your post, I am think you were calling core only the classes that have a large and long representation with the night elf group we playing from aka the Darnassians.
Whereas I factored in not only numbers and length of one group, but the degree and height of the mastery that exists within the race (incl the darnassians and other night elf groups who are just as valid night elves as the darnassians are), the impact it has had, the volume of lore and relation it has to the night elf as race and not just one group.
So while the mages have just returned to the darnassian group, they are core feature class of night elves. The group of mages that represent them amongst the dranssians, as a group are most prestigious prolific in this field, and have been wielding this art for nearly 15k years, the new daranssians that join them have a natural affinity and talent for this class because their race is born with it, and have been filled with its energies and powers over the last 10,000 years even if those new ones are from the group that wasn’t utilising there talent or power because of the goal of the previous era.
Same with DHs, they are a core feature of night elves even though the Illidari group isn’t part of the darnassian night elves, it is still a night elf based group and one who’s class life is both as influential and as old as druidsm, and is an intrinsic part of the night elf lore.
It’s just how we view things. When i play a night elf, as a night elf of the race, that is with the darnassian group. i’m not just taking the darnassian groups pre cata to sundering history and culture as the only valid or relevant version the race is based on. I play a demon hunter, that would be hypocritical of me, as a DH i am a night elf, my order is not officially aligned to Darnassian kaldorei, but I fight for them and I am their leader.
Wwhen i play a mage, my identity is of a night elf hgihbrone near 15,000 year strong magical tradition, whether i am new recruit that has joined them or one of the ancient ones myself, the darnassian groups tradition and main classes don’t define me at all, the prolific and distinguished kaldorei arcana is what does, and it is a core part of my race as it has been a part of the group I am part of, and others like the Moonguard and Farondis for nearly 15k years, longer than the druids and almost as old and prolific as the priests.
It is not less core because it wasn’t part of the darnassians for 10k years up to catalcysm.
I smiled here. you travel a lot abroad. Must be fun. It’s nice coming back to wow after breaks, it’s a lot more fun then.
Fascinating, that sounds like it could be quite hte story,
I never got that with Paladins… what was the main reason? The fantasy for the paladin blood elf? or the playstyle or both?
1 Like
To be honest, I work in UK.
When I am on holidays I go back to my country.
That’s how it used to be, before I bought a laptop a few weeks ago, otherwise I would be inactive until October.
Thank you.
Both.
- Paladins have some of the best lore also some of the best looking sets, also they are Alliance related as Shamans to Horde.
If you wanna play Horde Paladin, makes sense to me, they should be played in the first race that brought them to the Horde: Blood Elfs.
From WoWWiki:
" The Blood Elves or Sin’dorei in Thalassian (“children of the blood”), are a race composed of former high elves who renamed themselves in honor of their people who were killed during the siege of Quel’Thalas by the Scourge during the Third War."
A race that fought along side the Alliance and brought his influence to the Horde.
In TBC only the Blood Elfs had buildings and structures similar to the Alliance, while Forsaken had a ruins and Orcs, Trolls and Taurens had a more tribalistic environment.
As you said before, if wasn’t for population balance, maybe they would have blue eyes, still called High Elves, using the NE model, in the Alliance.
Blood Elf looks.
For 120 days, between (October 2005 and June 2007) worth of game time I tried to make my Troll female Hunter look good, in vain.
The best look I got was the Rank 11 PVP set, the Defilers PVP shoulders and the High warlord rank 14 that was being offered at the end of vanilla.
Raid sets were out of my reach, also Trolls walk barefoot, and ride Raptors.
Alliance players that complain about Horses should try playing 120 days with a Raptor as a mount. Always shacking as a mixer, epic mount only made the problem worse, I was amazed when I got my Forsaken epic mount from rank 11 pvp rewards, so much more stable in my screen.
For endless Bg’s from 10-19 to 40-49 I played my Orc male Warrior, only to find out that if you don’t have a epic damage, you look pathetic.
Orcs males only look good in Epic gear like gladiator sets, with ILV 400+
Being killed by a Gnome in a Bg is humiliating to be honest.
Played the entire expansion of TBC in my Forsaken priest.
Every piece of gear showed bones, lots of them.
I had to literally cover her in the largest cape, the biggest dress I could find, the largest gloves i could use. Everything looked ripped and decayed.
Worst vision I had of my Forsaken Priest was while I was trying to heal a low level Bg and she was walking in short trousers …
Mean while in every raid I showed up there was always a Blood Elf female Paladin, making me regret the choice I made.
And I hated to die. More than any other avatar. The scream was awful.
When I was playing my Blood Elf female paladin (not this one, the first one), during MoP and WoD 7 days free trial, every piece of crap gear look suddenly good.
I couldn’t stop collecting gear and store it in the bank for transmog, everything just look amazing.
If you die as a character with thin arms, waist and legs, suddenly it doesn’t look so bad as a male Orc in my opinion, also no witch scream while your avatar performs her death animation.
My only complain would be: Blizzard went too far with Blood Elf looks.
It makes every other races look less appealing, coming from someone who used to play a level 25 NE female Hunter in Bgs and love her animations.
- Finally when BfA came I immediately reminded of the horrors of forced PVP.
I still remember, back in Vanilla, trying to get to the coast of Ashenvale for a Horde quest, with my Troll Hunter, following the road and a obscure map and accidentally entering on a NE outpost and being killed by the sentinels.
After that being killed again this time by Alliance players (5 minutes PVP debuff)
In BfA I wanted something that could HS in a minute if that happened, the only class capable of that is the Paladin. (Bubble and HS out)
Also I was leveling a Rogue, Priest, Hunter and a Paladin.
Originally I wanted not one class but four. Cloth, Leather, Mail and Plate.
The Paladin was the one I felt most comfortable with.
Sorry for the wall of text.
Thanks for reading this far.
Cheers.
2 Likes