The ret experience in arena

PVP Arenas
1

Irrespective of how viable or non-viable it is, the experience of playing ret right now is miserable.

> Blind and rep break immediately to all of our abilities, including consecration, which you cannot turn off
> The healer is standing in your consecration that gets automatically put on the ground by your main holy power generator? Too bad, you can’t cc him
> Auto attack anywhere near your blind? Too bad, it’s aoe and it breaks it
> Divine toll? Yep, breaks your blind too.
> Naturally, so does auto divine storm
> Manage to avoid all the things above? Oops too bad, your Shield of Vengeance popped near your blind.
> Want to hit a psyfiend or a totem? Too bad, judgment is bugged and ignores those targets
> Being constantly trolled by devs:
> Community asks for long arm of the law back → Get it with a 10% speed increase
> Community asks for freedom on steed → choice node with the actual freedom making it useless
> Community asks for a charge or a leap → put it in a beta build and then be like “oh, too bad”
> https://www.wowhead.com/spell=355718/ultimate-retribution
> The golden path talent, which heals people standing in your consecration would take 36 minutes to heal someone up fully
> Get outhealed by warriors
> Get shredded by all physical damage dealers because of the armor nerf
> Your abilities are magic and physical damage at the same time. That means you get to be screwed over by both physical and magical defensives!
> Half the abilities nerfed in pvp by an arbitrary percentage, going unchanged as far back as BFA
> Cast freedom
> Instantly dispelled
> In fact the mage is casting spellsteal even before you have it

I’m losing my mind here. It is upsetting PvP development is totally abandoned.

4 Likes
2

Agree buff bm

3

Arms says hi

1 Like
4

No its not.

2 Likes
5

arent most of your spells holy damage? Ignoring armor and BoP.

That applies to every class no? Eveyrthing AoEs nowdays.

all your spells are ranged?

I am not arguing but it seems a bit exaggerated.

2 Likes
6

No. Most of the spells are holystrike damage and targets that have BoP are immune to them.

Likewise, targets that have spellBoP are also immune to them.

If a rogue uses evasion, they dodge all the holystrike abilities. If they use cloak of shadows, all the holystrike abilities miss.

If a monk uses fists, all the holystrike abilities are parried. If they use diffuse magic, all the holystrike abilities are reduced by 60%.

A large amount of CC abilities in CC nowadays have a threshold of damage that the target needs to take before the CC breaks. Take, for example:

Warrior fear
Priest/warlock fear
DK blind
Hunters can take diamond ice for their trap
Shaman hex
Cyclone (immune)

Whereas for me, all the target needs to do to avoid my cc is stand in my consecration that I cannot turn off.

I would argue, and I would love someone to prove me wrong, that ret has the most “involuntary” aoe out of any class.

Judgment is the only spell that has a range of 30 yards, and does the least damage, making it the primary candidate to snipe totems. There is also hammer of wrath but that is only a proc in context of the totems. The other spells have a range of 20 yards. Since they take priority in the damage rotation, they are not always available and using them on the totems wastes more damage, not to mention the range. This bug has literally lost me arena games and should have no excuse for exisiting.

Someone has made a video demonstrating the bug here:

Literally the most infuriating thing ever. Cast an ability and it just doesn’t work.

1 Like
7

I’ve just left my ret behind mate… My bigggest annoyance is my WOG healing for 400k… 3 holy power that stops me using Final Verdict and is on a GCD heals me for 5% maximum health, the same as Warrior auto proc

1 Like
8

you’re not alone there - dh suffers from the same garbanzo design
their attacks are absorbed by both AMS and physical BOP
and im pretty sure they were bypassing both when CHAOS damage(which is both magical and physical for dh according to wowhead) worked like it should
but both rets and dhs now are wrong coded iks di

soulrot was getting immuned by either a bop(physical bop) on an enemy or ON THE WARLOCK HIMSELF
the spell just went on cd and i clearly remember an arena where i lost because i couldnt manage to score a kill because a pala survived at 2% when my soulrot just didnt go off and i died

sweet souls warlock talent just doesnt work at all outside DOUBLE DPS 2S
yes it does work in double dps and it does NOT work if playing 2s with a healer or 3s or shuffle or bg or whatever

i mean there are plenty of bugs in this game ret is not the only one

btw forgot about the one i found recently - dwarf racial reduces the cd of the medallion by 30s for every dps spec when used
eg i have 1.5m cd on the medallion i pop racial boom 1m cd on medallion
small indie company

9

sweet souls doesn’t work if you are on a different server. I don’t know how long this bug has been a thing but its been several xpacs

10

You confuse DAMAGE type and ATTACK type, and you don’t really know how Evasion and Cloak work. To simplify things in this game there are two ability families, attacks and spells. Both can deal damage of any type (physical, a school of magic or a mix).

Evasion does not care what your damage is. It cares about HOW you are attacked. You dodge all attacks, regardless of their damage types and do not dodge any spell, regardless of their damage type. That means you dodge Mortal Strike (Physical damage), but also Arcane Shot (Arcane damage), Envenom (Nature damage) and so on and so forth because the damage type is not what we look at. Most Ret abilities are attacks and thus are dodged by Evasion, but all. Judgement for instance is not a simple attack, and hits through Evasion. HoJ is a spell and not an attack, and stuns through Evasion. Etc.

As for Cloak it is the same. It is a spell immunity, not a magic immunity. So, while it lasts you will immune any spell, but get hit by every attack even if it deals magic damage. You can Evvenom through Cloak, Verdict through Cloak etc. But, special mention for the first second out of the five, this one is a total magic immunity. So, for the 1st second it will indeed immune Envenom or Verdict on top of spells, but when that brief total magic immunity is gone, your abilities that are attacks will all hit even if they deal magic damage.

Tldr care what spells you press when, and you can be a threat through defensives because you have many ways through.

It is the same with what you say about Fists of Fury parrying the attacks, they get parried because they are attacks, not because they deal part physical damage… Envenom gets parried as well, for instance.

All that being said, there may be a few weird things with DH Chaos and Ret Holystrike damage schools these days. They are the only physical x magic schools remaining, and the way they work in theory is that they always take the path of least resistance. So, if BoP, then you ignore because the magical part hits. If AMS then you ignore because the physical part hits. That’s in theory. It is not the first time I’ve seen people complain about strange things so maybe they broke how it is supposed to work, or simply decided to change it without telling anybody.

1 Like
11

Not really, I never went into the mechanics of how it works in my post. Therefore I never confused anything. In fact, I know exactly how it works.

And yes, you are right in saying that some holystrike abilities indeed go through cloak/evasion, but up till some time ago it was not like that.

Btw, some of the abilities are considered a ranged AND melee attack at the same time and the way they evaluate against different defensives is not consistent.

It suggests the fact that there are many more flags and exceptions hidden in the server spaghetti code and the reality is not as simple.

Does not change the fact that I get screwed by both types of defensive. Not saying it is unbalanced or anything, just inconsistent and frustrating.

The immunity to both physical bop and spell bop has been there since the DF rework. I guess the path of most resistance is taken instead :slight_smile:

12

I suppose I’ll press X.

Again, it has nothing to do with the fact that it is an holy strike ability, it has to do with the fact that it is an attack. You could replace holystrike with arcane, shadowfrost, physical, banana or potato and it would be the same result.

It is pretty consistent once you know how it works, really. If you don’t find it consistent thrn some knowledge is not there.

There are more flags as you say, or more complex interactions at least, but I went for the simple explanation because I saw a lot of incorrect stuff being said.

Well again it has nothing to do with Holystrike. Ret attacks that are supposed to be dodged are dodged regardless of the damage type, Ret spells are immuned by Cloak regardless of their damage type, and Ret attacks tied to magic are immuned by Cloak for the 1st second. No correlation to Holystrike (or a “bug”) whatsoever.

I think it is more of a bug they did not spot, or did not care to fix (or a change in their system for stuff that interacts with both physical and magic). Because for example, there is the opposite bug with Veil of Midnight, the Cloak of Shadows PvP talent. It is supposed to cleanse physical effects, and it does. But, if you remember I spoke of 1s of total magic immunity upon pressing Cloak, before it becomes a mere spell immunity. Well, with this talent the 1st second is also a physical immunity (for no reason at all), while it should only really dispel physical effects. Somehow the magic immunity carries over physical when Cloak gets the ability to dispel physical debuffs with Veil of Midnight, it is not written anywhere, it is not flagged, nothing, but it works like that. That is nice for Rogues as you can then use Cloak to immune the entire game for 1s since magic AND physical are immuned for 1s (like you even immune stuff that can’t usually be avoided like Blind or Cheap Shot), but it makes no sense and just demonstrates that they messed up magic + physical interactions when they started to implement more of them (Veil and the Ret rework were released rather close in time, and I believe they changed something with Chaos damage around DF).

13

No, you are right on that as I already said, I should have phrased that earlier post differently. It does not have anything to do with the fact that it is holystrike.

The point of what I wanted to say with that still stands though, and it is only one of my many frustrations with ret.

14

ret is awful and has been since forever. Its historically a bad pvp spec and has a few weeks if it all every expansion where its good.

Theres too many flaws with it and the built-in cc break is just dog design and shows once again that blizz didnt care or didnt test how it will play out in pvp.

Thats an overall issue tho. Everything does aoe. Why? Oh yeah, bc of pve. Anyways, I suggest rerolling. You will have to play much better and have to put in much more effort into ret to achieve what you can achieve with an hunter or an ele or a dragon or a rogue etc. etc.

1 Like
15

Ret has too much utility

16

> Cries permanently about how they’re the worst class on forums

1 Like
17

Delete that spec of a joke and let us play the real deal the BM Hunter god class.

1 Like
18

Sounds like a skill issue to me

19

cries about Ret

looks over at Frost DK and Enhance shammy having less than 3% player participation in pvp

nah lets ignore them, :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

1 Like
20

Ret being more played doesn’t say anything about it’s being good or not. Enh is actually pretty strong. Stronger than ret imo. Hunter is the most played class even if it’s bad

Anyways, Ret design is flawed and it’s the same problems as always. Blizzard has no intentions of fixing it despite having two reworks in last 2 expansions