The thing about titanforge

Community General Discussion
1

I see alot of hate regarding the titanfroging system and a lot of people responding with: “its fine”, “uh u just jelly of muh epix” and “i dont care”.

Well for the ones who would like an explaination in how titanforging really affects your gameplay regardless of your progression, your ilvl, your skill or even what kind of content you are doing, as long as this content provides you with gear.

So the titanforging system is in a way like the legendary system: the more gearrewarding content you succeed, the higher your chances on the titanforging.
That is it. Its that simple, its just there to keep you playing the game, keep you involved.

What many people overestimate and whine about is: “Uh dem noob casuals going lfr and getting 395 pieces, while I have to go mythic for what? Why dont I just sit in lfr all day and get same rewards?”
-this is the concern i see being outed the most
-this is not a valid concern in my opinion
-the person getting this “luckdrop” is not going to compete with you for your dps spot, if you are a mythic raider and he is only doing lfr…
-this is not going to boost the “casual” more, than it is boosing you, assuming you loot the same amount of gear he does. It should be balanced over the long term.
-If you assume the “casual” gets pushed over the ilvl which corersponds with his skill, you are right, but that is going to be the case for everyone and it causes an ilvl inflation. For example: if titanforging is going to boost your ilvl by 5 over all ilvl and it dois this for everyone else, then the ilvl requirements for lets say normal uldir wont be 340 ilvl min, but 345 ilvl.
-the only thing that is bad for the casual is the warfront really in my opinion, it boosts the ilvl easily to 350-360ish where the next destination should be either +7 or hc raid and we all know those kind of pple are not ready to go there yet, cause they hardly had to learn anything about the game to get to this point, thanks blizzard/activision for that.

So basicly do not complain about titanforging being unfair to you, because it is not! Complain about it beeing a horrible gamedesign, because it just randomly smacks ilvl upgrades on pieces of loot that are absolutely uselelss to you, in many cases…
While it sounds as i am defending it, i am not. I strongly disagree with the implementation of this system and there are way better options, atleast for normal difficulty raiders and higher, in regard on how you could upgrade your gear and cut out the rng-bs to make gearing alot more predictable, steady paced and fun.

If you want my juice on it:
-remoove titanforge on everything dropping from m+2 and above as well as normal diffuclty and above.
-leave it in for casual players, since thos do not play the game very seriously and they have a great deal of fun getting those and they wont ever try to get in your raid or dungeon ever anyway… so why take that away from them.
-i would leave a warforge chance of +5 ilvl on items overall, since it is a nice little touch and doesnt hurt anyone.
-Implement a system to upgrade your gear controllably:
–>a way to scrap excessive gear to upgrade equipped pieces
–>usage of sanguicell to upgrade gear
–>even implementing an essence drop from raidbosses or something similar would be better than titanfroging…
these are just some examples of the infinite pallet of possibilites to make gearing up a great deal more fun, since for an mmorpg your character and in the next step your gear is what is important…

thank you for reading, cheers

2

I don’t know man, I’m no fan of an ideology that resolves around “play more & you might get rewarded with a superior gear”.

That mindset is not a remedy to the problems people see in the system, it merely leaves it to chance which is the problem, the game feels more like a slot machine when acquiring gear than any real progression towards such gear.

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3

that is the point of an mmorpg tho, play to get higher in the hierarchy, although its very flawed right now and you cant really distinguish the more advanced and absolutly casual players anymore, only the mythic raders seem to stand out alteast somewhat

4

He talks about a linear loot system, where you can collect/farm a resource to upgrade the gear rather than him having an offchance to get his item in 395, which is completely on par with what you mentioned.

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5

Much superior than War- or Titanforging was the system used in MoP prior to ToT, a simple ability to upgrade your gear using currency you get by doing dungeons or raids, with a limited amount of upgrades not to make it too powerful, and itself being a system that doesn’t revolve around luck, but certainty after doing content.

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6

that would be a dream for me to come true if they actually implemented such a system

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7

That one doestn necessarily mean doing the latest dungeons, inside of WoW it does obviously.
There were games where in some cases you would hold onto your early dropped weapon literally forever, or it might be a very rare drop from a very contested boss or something like that. WoWs approach is different and adding RNG to that just admits its actually not so good anymore.

8

this is going in the right direction, and it was cool back then but in my opinion it is just outdated. the present demands a much more suffisticated solution that that.

i have no idea what it could be, i gave some suggestions, but in terms of gamedesign and actually developing meaningful/fun gameplay, I am a sh*itsmierd peasant… unfortunately.

9

I will post my point of view from another post here:

There are several problems with the current gear system.

  1. Random sockets

Sockets make gearing as frustrating as it gets, more than WF/TF can. I have a 350 ring with socket that is better than all my 370-380 rings.
I have a lot of mythic raid gear with sockets, which means, even if i get a 395 WF from mythic, it needs to have a socket to be better. I have a 365 cloak with socket that is as good as my 390 cloak.

There is no linear progression for gearing, i now have to wait for the right item in 395 + socket or it won’t be an upgrade in the first place.

  1. WF/TF and how they should encourage playing overgeared content

In TBC we had Badge of Justice which was rewarded for every Raidboss and every HC dungeon boss you killed. You could get roughly 20 of them for one full clear of karazan and, iirc. around 4 for a HC dungeon, no matter which dungeon you ran, so even T5/T6 players would do karazan just for the badges to buy 1-2 pieces of gear that they still needed from the vendor or they start equipping the toon for a offspec and want an easy way to collect some gear for that spec by spending some badges.
You don’t need an RNG system to encourage people to play old content, give them a linear progression system that rewards running the content in the first place(Be it badges or an Upgrade system).

Furthermore, there were items that, like DST or Tsunami that were soooo good, even T6 guilds would run Kara/Gruul/SSC/TK cause they wanted some, very specific, items from those raids.

  1. Gear inflation

It’s not the biggest issue, but still a relevant one imo. It’s so easy to gear a character due to warfronts, weekly quests, flex raiding and how the lockout system in normal/hc works, in older expansions it took weeks to gear for the next difficulty(Kara/Gruul -> Maggi -> SSC/TK), you didn’t get 20 pieces of gear each week, which made the few items that you got feel that much more impactful, as they also were in the best condition they could be (Who feels great getting a 370 item from HC/a +10?), i could tell you every item that i wanted , where it dropped and from which boss, now i just know i want to do x cause it gives y ilvl which means it has a higher chance of foring to 395.

I equipped my 3rd character to over 370 in roughly 5-8 days, i was around 350 the first day i hit 120, which took me roughly 2 weeks on my main before Uldir got released, and over the time of 2 IDs i hit 370, while my neck is still in the 330s.

And, once the next raid comes out, LFR will get 370 items, equal to the current HC content, NM will get 385, current MYTHIC content ilvl. I don’t think that’s a good paste at which we’re progressing, if we would remove WF/TF and go up, maybe 15 ilvl per tier, gearing would feel way more impactful and there would be a lot more content, due to old raids still being somewhat relevant.

I don’t care if a casual player gets a 395 TF, i want the items that i get to feel impactful and i want a way to progress my character, even if he is at 380+, apart from praying that some 395 + socket drops from HC/+10

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10

there was a point at some time in classic where you did that. And it is now if you get and kill mythic taloc in the first week and get the weapon there, chances are you are not going to replace it for litterally the entire raid patch

but i understand what you mean, i dont like the current system either…

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Longer than that, maybe even the lifespan of the game (which some people might consider boring because there is no update to their characters power after you aquire it).
This wouldnt make WoW much more interesting because the game isnt setup to support it that way anymore. It would make it hell to balance if all old items were not overwhelmingly weak after each expansion. But this mixmatch of RNG versus somewhat taken for granted drops doesnt feel good to me - I just like hunting stuff.

12

Pff, timewalking already doest that.

Look at the #1 log for outlaw on Fetid. Someone did 2.2k dps with the proc of the 355 dagger illidan drops.

Blizzard can’t even balance items in the current game, i have a 395 trinket with socket that is barely better than a 355 fathom trinket while giving me stats that i actually need.

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hahaha so true disc and ghun trinket are a disgrace and a testimonly of blizzards bad balancing… absolutely disgraceful

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Completely agree with you there.

That’s where I disagree. By giving me gear that is higher ilvl than the content I’m doing drops, it makes it so my experience in the next “difficulty level” is an easier one. I mean just the fact that I’m doing wqs and I get 355 and 370 items effectively nerfs content before I had a chance to do it. It’s very demotivating reaching a new encounter after I outgear it and makes me lose interest. This is a problem I had since wrath “catch-up” gear.

I don’t mind that an lfr player can get random titanforges and improve his gear, it doesn’t affect me at all (or wrath style, farm badges to get last raid’s tier). What I mind is that I can get things I don’t feel I deserve and that will make future content easier.

That system wasn’t introduced until Siege of Orgrimmar. It served as a replacement to “let’s nerf the last tier by 5% every 2 weeks”, starting at 2 4ilvl upgrades per piece and then getting expanded to add another 2 4ilvl upgrades. Good system but it would stack on top thunderforging/warforging (or whatever forging was called in SoO).

So far I got 4 trinkets that are 370-385 that are “str+do damage”. With protection loot spec… yeah, none of them are better than my 355 (or even close to it).

15

I don’t think it requires anything more, you know the saying: “Don’t fix what isn’t broken.”, and said system certainly isn’t broken, it works just fine and does exactly what it should be doing, why look for something better than that, when it already works just about perfectly. Sure, if an idea is brought up how it could be improved, it’s a welcome change, but it doesn’t need a change.

Besides, anything is better than this RNG crap.

16

this is wrong, you are mixing up welfare gear with titanforging, if you mean welfare gear is unfair and actually damaging to the game expirience, i totally agree with you, this is correct.

1 Like
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I’m a bit sick today and not a native english speaker so yeah, I can get unclear. I’m not talking about the 370 from the warfront quest or the 355s from world bosses, this is just random titanforges. I had 5x355 items before raids even opened, 4 of them coming from wqs (and one even had a socket). I’m sad to say that Uldir didn’t feel very challenging when it opened (since I wasn’t the only one with all these upgrades). It’s unfair to take my chance to be challenged away, that’s my point.

Titanforging is an extension of thunderforging, which is an extension of welfare epics. Just read what they said in the post-blizzcon q&a : “there were raids that had all the gear up to tsulong and couldn’t kill him or get upgrades to make the fight easier. so we came up with thunderforging”. I mean, ok, some people need better gear than what a boss drops to kill a boss, that’s fine and I don’t care what their solution for those people is. Just don’t force it down my throat please :frowning:
I hope I made some sense :slight_smile:

18

if this was a singleplayergame, yes this might be true but you are with 14 other pple in a raid most of the time. you want challenge? you tried mythic yet?

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I’m not the only one getting titanforges, those other people in my raid do the same.

Yeah, I’ve been doing hc raids since wrath and mythic raids since they were introduced. I’m done with that for good. I’m a casual, by the time I get to that content it’s already been nerfed, we outgear it or both. Not to mention that progressing through the same bosses twice got old 9 years ago. Last time I did mythic raiding it wasn’t challenging, it was a chore. Yes, I tried m+ too.

I’m not asking for sweeping changes to the game, don’t get me wrong. I would just love it if I can have a challenging experience without playing for 35 hours a week :slight_smile:

20

its not true, its a system rewarding somene to constantly play the game and do content, welfare epics reward you for actually falling asleep after you accepted the queue invitation… this is the difference. i can understand your grief but once you should target it at the right… well target. right now you arent really making a good point since what you are saying is highly subjective and also not very accurate… im sorry i agree on welfare gear ruining your expirience, but titanforging is balance, although a bad and lazy game design…