The Titanforge Problem - A Potential Fix

Community General Discussion
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We all know the issues with titanforging are long and prevalent, players feeling unrewarded, getting undeserved pieces of gear, obtaining items far and above higher than they have any right to obtain. However, I’m not going to repeat what has been known since day 1 of Legion, what I will do, though. Is attempt to put forward a constructive solution to the problem in which has to many, plagued the game for the past couple of years.

Right now, the gearing system rewards luck over all else, You need to get lucky to get a piece to start with, then get lucky to get it to warforge, then get lucky to get it to titanforge, then get lucky to get a gem socket, then get lucky to get it to proc a bonus stat, then get lucky to see it titanforge some more. You get my drift.

This entire luck-based system has to be reeled back hard. Gems have to be placed on the gear by a human being, they should be part of the itemisation of a piece of gear, gems should be fixed and proper, just like they used to be.

Remove Titanforging

It’s a very simple solution, and one that I think works. Right now, myself, as a Heroic Raider, can obtain Mythic quality pieces of gear that I do not deserve simply by being lucky. Let’s look at Jaina Proudmoore. It is infinitely more difficult on Mythic than it is on Heroic, yet, with a spice of luck, I can obtain the same gear as the players who put in 1000x more effort than I. That isn’t a fair game and isn’t a fair system.

What I propose is a +10 cap to gear forging. This allows Blizzard to keep their luck based system they seem to adore so much and this fulfills their goal of having content be relevant even after clearing it once or twice. As you might just get a small upgrade, but it fixes the issue of Mythic, or any difficulty higher than the one you are doing being irrelevant to get gear from.

  • Rename Warforging +10 to Titanforging
  • Delete +15 Upgrades or Higher.
  • Bring Back Valor Points and Upgrades…

Valor Points and Valor Upgrades

Valor upgrades were brought in in MoP, and they also made a brief appearence at the end of WoD. I want Valor Upgrades back.

However, you may think “Hang on, if valor upgrades are back, what if you just get lucky, get a +10 piece and then just upgrade it to become +20, doesn’t that seem wrong?” Yes, it does, Which is why these would not stack.

If you get a Warforged item (+5) then you could use your valor to Titanforge that item to a +10. Then it would be capped.

If you get a Titanforged item (+10) then you could use your valor to do…nothing with it, it’s already capped!

If you were unlucky, (+0), you could use your valor to upgrade it to a Warforged item, and then into a Titanforged item!

Congratulations, with a little bit of work, you can circumvent RNG. This is a much fairer system which reincentivises players to participate in content to earn Valor points, and allows players to Choose what items they wish to upgrade first.

Valor Caps MUST be a thing

However, if this system goes ahead, Valor caps must be a thing. else people will infinitely grind. There must be a cap that is easily obtainable from just doing one or two things, and should not require high end players to do content they do not enjoy.

Let’s say you can earn 1000 valor per week max. Let’s say a warforge item upgrade costs 250 valor. If you then wish to titanforge it (+10), it’d cost an additional 500 valor. These numbers are just thrown out of my head. Of course, it can’t be too quick to upgrade this, but also, too slow and it may aswell not exist. I

A Summary
I firmly believe this suggestion is one that could very much fix a lot of people’s issues with the current Warforge/Titanforge system. It fixes the issue of people getting gear they just don’t deserve, it fixes the issue of players feeling like RNG screws them over too much, it allows players to freely chose which items they want to upgrade, giving them player agency which should be Blizzard’s new buzzword.

I’d like to hear feedback on this system, and any potential fixes and improvements to it, if you also see flaws to this, I’d like to know! Because I want this game to be good. I don’t want it to suck :frowning:

TL;DR
Remove Titanforging
Rename +10 Warforging to Titanforging
Bring back item upgrades
Allow players to ‘Warforge’ or ‘Titanforge’ their armor using Valor
Have a valor cap.

26 Likes
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I like titan forging.
It allows me as a more casual player to reach heights I would not be able to otherwise.
I know in your sphere it is something bad as it means you have to strive towards something random. But to those of us that don’t try to get into mythic groups with pure luck gear, it means a lot and would damage our gameplay to take it away.
Why not make it so it cant go above current tier heroic raiding gear?
Thats fair to the casual players that like it and means that heroic plus raiders can strive towards the best mythic gear.

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It would not at all damage your gameplay. You would be able to earn your way to a point at which you deserve. You dont deserve Heroic quality loot for doing LFR. That’s not how this game used to work and it isn’t how it should work now. Casual players who like the system still have the system, it just is capped at +10. So it doesn’t have constant gear overlap between difficulties which make the game unneccessarily grindy for many people.

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That is your opinion.
But when it comes to doing world quests for your gear because that is the content you enjoy, and are stuck far below everyone else, the suprise of a +20 is an amazing feeling.

It would damage my gameplay as its things like a titanforge I play for.
Without it I might not be as interested in playing.

So yes you do need to think about the casual player.
Or else “it wont damage your gameplay to have it as its as random for everyone else as you so on average you get the same ammount of upgrades as everyone else.” no?

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I Think The Main Problem With The Loot System Is It Needs To Cater For The Entirety Of The Player Base. I Personally Despise Titanforging, As Does Every Other High End Raider.

Gear And Items Should Be Earned Justly And Not Given Out Like “Hey You Saved Some Turtles Here’s A Max Ilvl Cap Item”.

If You’re Only Content In The Game Is Farming WQs Then Guess What You Don’t Need 425 Items For That Content. I Think The Items Should Be Rewarded Around The Difficulty Of Acquiring Such Items, With The Possibility Of Upgrading Them Slightly Through The Use Of An Upgrade System Which Can Help Players Branch Into Harder, More Challenging Content As A Progressive Way To Move To Harder Content.

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The difference between Medicine and Poison is just the dosage.
Too much Medicine and it becomes Poison.

Too much catchup and it becomes pointless, what are you catching up to if everything is catchup?

The surprise of a +20 might feel amazing, but I’m sure you would feel far more rewarded if you earnt that upgrade through parts of the game that actually mattered, such as valor points of old. You’d play dungeons, over time you’d earn a piece of gear that was powerful. Now you just get one for being lucky. It isn’t as rewarding or fulfilling.

I am thinking of the casual player, for the casual player, an item upgrade system is far and above better than what they used to have.

Plus, you do realise the world scales, right? What are you going to use your +20 item for? It doesn’t even matter for you.

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But if running dungeons over and over isn’t content I find fun?
And if its the standard that everyone can upgrade their gear 10 levels, then the standard of gear has just gone up 10 levels with more effort thrown in. It doesn’t change anything apart from making your upgrade take more steps.

It does not scale indefinitely.
In the base patch I hit 340 and felt stronger than when I dinged 120.

4 Likes
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Killing 12 boars shouldn’t give you raid gear.

Not to mention, whilst yes, maybe the gear is just bumped up by 10, but that’s what it is now. It changes nothing apart from making the game less RNG heavy and rewarding effort over pure luck.

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I am afraid this is something which some people might not sit well with. The classical “counter-argument”: Who are you to judge who is worthy or getting what?

Mine personal view regarding WF/TF is pretty much centered around the idea of: Minding your own business. If I farm some trinket, wep what ever. I don’t care if I farmed like 25+ FH +10s to get the trinket while some random John did a +5 and it titanforged to oblivion. Eventually I will get what I want and thats what all matters. Be it trough 50 runs or getting a lucky 1 run.

I am sorry but I have a feeling that some people who oppose to wf/tf simply feel that their “ego and e-****” is threatened cause they cant show off their magical “ilevel” to others.

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But if running dungeons over and over isn’t content I find fun?

What if I don’t find any of the content fun, but I enjoy getting gear slammed onto my character? Should I log in with 420 item level? I’m not trying to be rude, but I feel like that’s what you’re saying.

I don’t understand what you need the gear for, or how it makes a difference to you, but I’m open to understanding your perspective, so bear that in mind. But why should you be rewarded if you’re not putting in effort? How does that make sense anywhere?

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When it comes to raiders complaining that there is no clear route of progression for them with titanforging I do sympathise.

But when it comes to “You don’t do the content I enjoy then you don’t deserve good gear” then it falls flat very quickly.

I mean, raiders get buffs now just for the raiders.
Why shouldn’t someone that doesnt like raids and dungeons have a goal to strive towards outside of those things?

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Not at all.
I advocate for playing the game.
But when forging is as rare as it is, it does not mean you get it handed to you.
It takes a lot longer to get the upgrades, but it comes over time… maybe.
But its the maybe we (i) play for.

3 Likes
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Hell no.

I cannot stand that. I hate repeating content for the sake of loot, if drops you get, can’t compete with what you buy(the rate you obtain it + ilvl). I am not going to run dungeons over and over again for loot. The loot are just tool for the sake of progression, not a reward to me.

If you are going to bring back those crappy points you’re gonna have to make loot/high ilvl obtainable equally fast as it is today.

I really cannot fathom this hate for titanforging, but whatever, I get it. You don’t like it, I am not bothered by it at all. If anything it makes gearing feel better.

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It’s nothing to do with Ego or e-peen. It’s about the game making sense.

Who am I to judge who is worthy of getting what?
Well, if you raid Heroic, you should get Heroic gear.
If you raid Normal, you should get Normal gear.

Titanforging ruins that system and ruins the effort --> reward paradigm in the game.

The effort required for John to do a +5 to get the Harlan’s Dice is much lower than you doing a +10, he shouldn’t get the same or higher version than yours under any circumstances, that makes no sense.

If this was a single player game. I could very easily mind my own business, but it’s not, it’s a multiplayer MMORPG.

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I am not going to run dungeons over and over again for loot.

But literally all content in the game is repititive. Doesn’t matter if you’re raiding, running dungeons, doing world quests or farming mounts or whatever else. The entire thing is you repeating the same content over and over and over and over and over and over again. So why are valor points bad?

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Thats why I said cap it at heroic.
That way heroic raiders and mythic raiders dont worry about their progression.
Normal raiders have an easier time getting up the ladder.
And casual players get their fun.

No harm no foul.

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If you cap it at Heroic, then Heroic raiders will just feel the same pinch as Mythic raiders do today. Why bother doing Heroic when I can just get the same gear from Normal?

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Btw Aylish I am about.
Just got a new doer upper house on the 5th.
And got married on the 11th.

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Blizzard defined the system to those itemlevels for casuals as high end raiders through titanforging, but you chose to leave that out of your description of how the system works?

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Because you don’t just get handed it.
Its luck of getting the gear you want upgraded.
It could take months to get what you could get in weeks doing it that way.

4 Likes