Ok, got you now.
Yeah your right the spectrum does shift, and to a degree encounters are still being designed under the assumption you did a certain number of base + x ilvl pieces.
While on paper it does not mean doing heroic is pointless, we all have lives and a limited number of hours each week. And what therefore happens is instead of following a progression path your skipping steps. LFR > Normal > Mythic. Imagine flipping burgers at McD’s to manage the tills and then becoming CEO straight after (not the best analogy but it helps illustrate things).
Erm >.> rubbing Casual or Competitive up the wrong way causing some to leave is better than a system both agree on and live with resulting in less sub losses ?
Remind me never to introduce this kind of thinking round here eh
Not at all. My point was exactly the opposite - they design the game in such a way that they have as many subs as possible - no matter casual or competitive. And I believe I watched a Q&A when Ion said something along those lines in regard to titanforging.
Well if you have a limited time to play than you should be fine with an accelerated progression.
Still TF alone doesn’t achieve that, the example i gave was for ONE item, if all your gear is LFR but you get a lucky +30 TF it doesn’t mean you skipped normal and hc and you’re ready for mythic raiding.
Lastly yes your analogy is really bad, i suppose you wouldn’t make the same analogy when talking about raids in the “good” expansions, imagine flipping burgers at Mc’D’s and at the end of the day you have a high chance of not getting paid.
A real life job shouldn’t be a model for raid design.
Well no one has sub figures off course other than Blizz. But when looking and playing I do get that distinct impression there are fewer players now than even at the same point in Legion (which off course had its own issues).
And also granted BFA has a host of other issues which are likely contributing to this.
I think the pity is that the whole TF stuff came in initially during WoD during HFC and because lets face it there have been design choices and blunders along the way even undoing it will not instantly draw people back.
My line of discussion is merely as you stated above from the current position on the current path looking forward. And while casual players perhaps are the largest portion of the player base, they will eventually go at one point or another. And I don’t think a middle ground would be the push in that direction.
As mentioned I like to work towards things. Im not a massive fan of having to spend more time to get into groups because I can only spend 15 hours a week on wow vs someone who can spend 40 hours grinding that perfect rng from whatever content (not just limited to LFR).
For me you saying “having accelerated progression” I would take as catching an alt up to start in normal raids. Pretty much like timeless isle did in MoP towards the end.
I wont even go into the whole not feeling complete side of things (Damn OCD).
ADDED As a comparison Gannet, M+ from +2 to +10 as an example for me feels great as the gear increases in strength the higher I go. Its just the complete random VOILA we have supplied you with a free +30 ilvl’s for being so awesome aspect that then feels deflating. (I know right, odd to see someone feel deflated instead of a 10 second long rush).
Exactly as what was mentioned with Belluar, daily rewards and forging being only short lived moments of joy. It’s better to work towards something and it will keep you engaged for longer.
These people need to be honest and say how much they think of their war- and titanforges past the iniatal 10 seconds of getting it. While a piece of gear you worked and progressed for, bled and/or grinded for stays in your mind for years to come sometimes. I don’t remember any drop I got this expac, I can still name or atleast describe (I’m bad with names) items from past expansions.
Just putting this out there, I do not watch or have ever watched streamers or such you tube vids. I make my own opinions. Only vids I have watched are fatboss and method ones on raid encounters and what not.
Seriously… Sorry just tired of this so not directed at you and just getting it out of the way. These are my own opinions, like the vast majority of viewers make up their own opinions. We didn’t get these opinions because we are sheep. =
What Belluar said of why classic stick is because it feels rewarding, in the long term. BfA is quite the opposite it’s all about the quick reward now which you then forget the next day you even got it. People will remember getting an long and hard time to craft weapon, but won’t be able to name the sword they just +10 on. They can name stats. That’s the points, short burst. But he compared classic also to all mdoern games following the same reward style as BfA and also fail few months after launch. The games are made to be quick cash grabs, it looks shiny but it’s they are all so shallow.
I hate people calling others casual.
I happen to know a few players in top 100 who play 4 hours per night and 4 nights per week .
And i know people who only do WQ and LFR and play 7 days per week and 6 to 7 hours per day .
To me the latter seems more hardcore due to time spent .
What makes me sick its same people again and again telling others what they deserve when they are nothing special themselfs.
MoP had the best TF/WF there is no need to fully remove it due to people who think they are elite thus better.
The sight of that Asmong makes me want to vomit all he does is armoury shame people and belittles them.
So what’s a cuasal and hardcore? I say it by type of content, only do LFR? Casual, can play 40 hours a week but still casual. Do mythic raiding but play only a few hours a week, hardcore. Others wanna turn this around and that’s fine, but somebody who claims to be hardcore doing only WQ and LFR 40 hours a week will remain in my eyes casual.
What makes us sick is the casual in my opinion form saying us how to play or enjoy the game, why should I listen to somebody who catches squirrels about the worth and uses of gear? According to you I was an idiot for having an AoE (mainly for dungeons) and ST (mainly for raids) set, I was a loser and try hard.
“Gear doesn’t matter to me so it shouldn’t to you!”
Meanwhile I was benched on critical progression fights due to severe lack of loot luck, same with others. This can always happens, but forging makes this worse. But the problem remains even with equal loot drop just because 1 person gets lucky he goes on progress team and GL getting out of bench team! “We know you can do it, but we really need y to push these last few percentages to kill it tonight. You will be in the next kill or the 3rd kill, sorry we know you showed maximum effort but the guild porgression is most important” I agree with this but it still sucks when you get sat for having lower Il weapons and the like whiel wearing the same items… “if only he didn’t warforge/titanforge so much gear”
Was the drop for me, they finaly listen to people not wanting an unlsoeable warfront and what reactions does give me crowd leave: “maybe YOU enjoy losing, but as the Decepticon medic, Knockout, from Transformers Prime once said, which i can totally agree with, “The game is more fun, when you’re WINNING”. do you HONESTLY think anybody who farms battlegrounds ENJOYS it when THEIR side LOSES? i, for one, LOVE the fact that warfronts are impossible to lose”. So they make group based warfront and the first people type is how it’s unfair it isn’t on queue system for the casuals they proclaim to be, heck 1 even said making groups was hard work. Warfronts aren’t mythic raiding or high push keys so just keep in mind you grab a few healers and you should be fine.
That video isn’t even about Asmongold, this confirms it you guys don’t watch them when they are used to strengthen an opinion.
Dont worry I know it wasn’t at me. I just made a point of pointing it out in case others felt this is where I got my opinions from if you get me. Too often people are quick to call a persons opinions a forced opinion from some random guy or gal on a stream.
That was my point way up but also allow valor upgrades.
Did you even read before your inane rant
Your whole post is a huge bucket of dribble if you cant be bothered to read others and understand it then dont post.
I’ve seen this copy/paste so many times by so many people but i doubt anyone understands what they are saying.
First of all having the game made more tedious and gear locked behind a mindless grind is not an improvement, this reminds me of old men lecturing today’s youth they have it easy and glorify the good old days where everything was more inconvenient.
Gear is a stepping stone, it’s a tool required to kill bosses, this is the real challenge, it’s what you actually “work” towards yet for no reason people are stuck in this mindset that there is an arbitrary amount of effort required to obtain these tools.
I’m calling it arbitrary because if you take a truly objective person, one who never played WoW or any MMO before there is no way to reach the conclusion that your amount of “effort” makes the best game.
Lastly this obsession of remembering item names, again copy/pasted thousand times, i think a streamer made a video bringing up this very argument.
How does this relate to titanforge? nobody explains, a streamer made this association and everyone else swallowed hook, line and sinker.
There is a big difference when it comes to gearing between now and TBC, the main being that loot comes from various different sources as opposed to the old way of just raiding. Also back then for each spec, you had only 1 item drop per slot per raid, which also last longer. And yes when your options are limited to …1 then you tend to remember that item which never drops.
Also when i was young i got bitten by a dog once, i still remember it to this day and it doesn’t change the fact that it was a painful experience yet because a streamer made the association that “remembering name = good” everyone brings it up as the ultimate argument.
The rest of your posts are in direct contradiction with this claim, so i seriously doubt it.
Rant? Everybody has different definitions, for me it’s content based. Nothing more, nothing less. I don’t respect somebody as hardcore if all he does is 40 hours of WQ only. It just means you play lot. Somebody who is awefull at football but still plays every day isn’t a professional either nor will be called that in the media.
Yep happens all the time lately, “But just said that thus everybody with said opinion got it from him and you’re all toxic sheep!” to put it shortened. It’s a quick way to not having to respond and proclaim yourself the victor without having to do anything.
Respect? I never mentioned that, this is what I mean with this. I just said I view it as the following:
-Hardcore = somebody engaging in high end content
-Casual = People who just wanna relax or resort to play the low end content.
Both can exist, time played doesn’t matter in my view no matter how much or how few hours you play. For other people it’s the other way around definition wise, yes the respect.
The person cathing butterflies 24/7 telling me gear doesn’t matter? Yeah I will ignore that, of course it doesn’t matter to them, but for my side it does. Same way somebody in RP wants mog > power where gameplay wise you power > mog. It’s 2 entirely different views of the game. Or the person farming old expac raids suddenly isn’t an expert about current expac raids.
I and many tohers simply want this lotery to be over, bring back valor upgrades and be done with it. If the boss drops the item, I should be done farming it. Then I can spend time getting valor from raiding, dailies and dungeons to upgrade said item. Also i can decide which item to forge that way isntead of titanforged with the worst stats possible.
In my opinion a raid with atleast 8 bosses (say 1k is the weekly cap and 125 a boss) and you doing a full clear should be the weekly cap, or about 6/7 mythic dungeons (150 a dungeon and not not saying M+ just ordinary mythic) otherwise. Also I never complained about forging till Legion pre-patch. A single +6 was fine and ignorable. Yes it was a good 40% extra boost when compared to the difficulty difference (15 ILs), but the situations like we had today where we can skip entire steps (titanforging) wouldn’t happen. The +6 chance was a power boost but not a power boost ever worth chasing (it also was rare enough nobody ever got a full of thunderforged gear in ToT for example), same way people see a single warforge (+5) today. They barely care, it’s nice but not a game changer.
People are to much about items and there worth was not really a thing until Wotlk and gear score came in . Also todays player seems to care far to much what others have and what they do .
Today’s players are like this because other today’s players demand these things before letting them into a group. It will never get better, only ever worse. And if you were to remove iLvl/gearscore something new would take its place (eg take .io as a perfect example).
but also allow valor upgrades.