It’s not about the bottleneck, it’s about having to spend this time to do those dungeons again over two or more resets while you could have just been farming the dungeons where your good gear drops.
And saying that something is not an issue because there are other issues as well is stupid in my humble opinion. Issues don’t cancel each other out. It’s wasting more of our time for no reason while it didn’t use to. I don’t see why you’d defend it.
This idea translates the fact that Blizzard designers are completely divorced from wow community, ie the community wants to play alts whereas Blizzard is preventing players to play alts.
I don’t care aboot that change since I’m only playing 1 to 2 chars within the span of an expansion but I understand those feelings. Hence why I’m now jumping on the “remove M+ rating requirement” ship.
And blizzard is using this to make people that cant do m+ spend money on gold so they can buy boosts.
that was way before 9.1 fiasco and FF14 as rising star and "the new mmorpg to play "
them putting in any resources into 9.2 would be pointless as people will play FF14 anyway till 10.0 - investing more and more time into it.
their only chance is pushing 10.0 and adding new casual friendly stuff into new expansion instead trying to salvage this made by catering to toxic nolifing hardcores.
you are under false assumption that people upgrade only absolute bis items.
normal players dont care about bis - they care solely about itlv - and once they get any item in that slot on decent itlv (like 229-233) they will use VP there to rise their overall itlv
actually there is no point putting to much attention on bis to upgrade as most of time if you pull out 252 from GV it will beat any 246 upgraded loot. with exeption of maybe rings/neck .
If you’re not doing every dungeon at +10, why you even need, or deserve gear higher ilevel than from a 15?
It’s as easy to play an alt in 9.1 as it was in 9.0. Even easier, because of gear inflation, dungeon and affix nerfs, and Tormented being considerably more forgiving than Prideful. The score also lets you mix and match dungeons, doesn’t require any dungeon timed.
I have 4 characters at 220+ ilevel, two I abandoned (not for gearing reasons, but because I didn’t like the class/role/spec/whatever), two I actively play. I play about half as much as I did in BfA, yet, have better gear and more fun.
You can very well play alts. You can even maintain multiple mains. All you need to do is set priorities and goals. For example, on an alt that does a weekly +5 or so, I don’t care about valor at all, because why would I? A potential reroll? No biggie, I will focus on that, and spam m+ with friends for gear, score, and Valor. I might run less keys on other chars to find the time, but that’s a trade I’m willing to make if I want to reroll.
The M+ rating stuff is nice, because it gives you more flexibility, you no longer need to time anything, and you can make up for a low sanguine depths with a high mists key for example, and that is amazingly useful.
It does take a bit more time, yes. But if you’re actively playing the alt, it won’t be noticable. If you’re not actively playing it, then it doesn’t matter.
well its not like 2k score requires “that” much work. im super casual scrub who just do 4-5 dungeons a week and im already on 1.250 toxic score this season while having very weak gear aka 225 (ofc i mean weak for the 13-14 bracket that im already doing) and while still missing any score from SD . next week i till try to join it on 12-13 and this alone will put me close above 1400 which is next breakpoint for VP gear upgrades.
im sure there is plenty of people who do nothing more but just put a little more time and clear like 8-10 dungeons a week and who are already on like 1600-1700 score by just pugging casualy.
actually this season even depleeted keys are worth to be finished for score - for example depleted mists 14 gave me +5 score over completed in time 13.
so if someone is chasing score all he has to do is to stick to completing dungeons even not in time. the key is to simply do them both on tyranical and fortified - as just completing both gives you free extra X score. ill give here example of DoS 13 which i have both timed - it gives rought +/- 230 score - if you did it in 8 dungeons it will put you on what 1840 score - and 13 seems to be "easy " difficulty still this tier with like 225 gear if people know what they do there.
what i mean - all that toxic score really requires is time put into game - and being in enough groups that can carry you 
Wait what?
I didn’t pay too much attention to the wowhead stuff for this patch, but Did they seriously remove the one redeeming quality this excuse for a valor system had?
Oh my god. WOW. just WOW…
I’m sick of Ancelyn’s shilling for Blizz all over my thread
I don’t care what you think I “deserve” or not
I want to be able to upgrade a random item to highest level based on the fact I got KSM on one of my characters
This is something that Blizzard gave to me last patch then took it away
They did this so they would force me to grind out same achievement multiple times
I said it 100 times, I don’t care about play time METRICS, I care only about user EXPERIENCE which is abysmal in many ways because blizzard thinks only through excell spreadsheets about this game
The raid and tier sets have already been designed .
Because when I do 20s on my main it’s kind of silly that I have to “prove myself” again on an alt by getting 2k score on that character as well, as if I left my brain on my main…
Appreciate explaining it to me as if I’ve never touched a keystone before. I’m not at a point where I have to try hard to get KSM. I just do 15s-17s an get 2k without considering it pushing. My issue is that now it takes not only longer, but I’m also going to have to do all of those dungeons at that level on any of my alts that I want to upgrade my gear on, and I’m going to have to do that across two or more weeks, becuase playing alts already requires extra time, which I don’t exactly have all that much of in between working, raiding and playing my main outside of raiding. The requirement of KSM per character only makes this worse. But sure, it’s “not that bad”, as if that phrase has ever justified any stupid decision.
when i reach combatant on my retri pala it doesnt mean i can do the same on my lock, so pvp doesnt allow me to have it that way
s1 KSM acc wide was a way to make pve gearing more attractive than pvp, now when pvp gear downscales in pve its no longer needed
thats why they changed it i think
PvP is very different. Dungeons are scripted enough and with minor dynamics that once I know the dungeons, which I do at this point, and once I know how to play the class/spec at a basic level, I won’t struggle getting KSM at any alt assuming it’s reasonably geared. I might not be able to push as high as I would on my main, but KSM would be a breeze. In PvP, you’ll need to learn a new class much better to get anywhere decent, because every match will be different, and you’ll have to learn how to handle that class against all classes and class combos, while dungeons are much more about the dungeon knowledge and pathing than playing your class perfectly. I’m assuming you’re talking about arenas since this doesn’t really apply to RBGs.
IMHO the KSM change is nothing more than an unnecessary time sink.
And yes, I admit that being good at PvP is harder than being good at PvE in case anyone would feel like pointing that out.
i think they should add KSM_class achievement next patch so that if you are ksm on lock you can gear all your locks
same with pvp if you are challenger on priest, all priests on your account can upgrade ilvls
there are still weekly caps and etc, but at least playing alts of same class wouldnt be that much of a pain
and you have already proven you know your role or class at least
Oh look, Lillith making things up again as usual.
If you want to do anythig of that sort, then make it role based. RDPS, MDPS, Tank and Healer. I personally don’t know of anybody who plays several characters of the same class, and I have friends in top 100 guilds. That change would serve an insanely extreme minority of players.
Give me literally any class of any spec and I’ll be able to learn it well enough to get KSM on it within two days. That doesn’t make me a great player or anything, I’m just experienced enough across multiple classes and roles and pushing keys that picking up something new just isn’t a big deal for me anymore. That is not a rare thing.
i agree in m+ its more about the role knwoledge whats expected and important
and that would only make you play more cause you can try a roaster of different chars in the actual field and indeed your ability to play the role is proven
also balancing changes wont discourage you too much since you can hop on alts in case you ever feel the changes are to much to bear
less drama is good
Then stop playing maybe?
No offense, but I don’t think I’ve seen a single positive post from you at all, ever! That’s fine, but why are you still playing if that’s the case. I’d just quit instead of spreading negativity for the sake of being negative. Surely it’s tiring?
Apparently they bought 7 years sub in WoD with all the gold they had …
In their defense, I don’t have many positive things to say about SL either, yet that doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy playing parts of the game. I like raiding and dungeons, which is one of the few things that are consistently pretty good regardless of expansion. There are just things all around that make it a hassle to enjoy those, but we manage to enjoy it anyway after pushing through the bad stuff. So we could either praise things that are already good and have pretty much always been good, or complain about the bad stuff to express the dissatisfaction with new things that take away from the game.