Then you’d best reroll fast
Yes…that’s what she said to Saurfang…but lets be fair she was not being entirely truthful was she? even in “A good war” she was holding back information and her true intentions
And if her intentions where to do as she mentioned in “A Good War” and to broker Peace, then why, when she was winning anyway, did she then decide to set fire to her outlined prize and burn it, and everyone in it, to the ground?
That was not an act of brokering Peace, that was just a random act of violence against none combatants.
Well the way she escalated war was imo idiotic. There are so many ways to weaken Alliance and she picked the worst one.
if I was on her place I’d pay to escalate conflicts within Alliance, raise straikes and protests. Likely send insiders to cause drama in forgotten Westfall and other regions. For people to complain about Anduin and wanting a real actions to make their situation better. Put some people in dwarf population asking why is human in charge of them? Amon worgen - why their leader is treated like a dog on leash? There are valid reason even from meta point of view but I also believe it would be a great reasoning if Alliance started to do it themselves.
Then I’d make false flag assault. So something that Twilight Hammer did at start of Cataclysm, - dress people to pretent that is was Alliance and make them attack Horde, let other Alliance witness it and you would have excuse to escalate War.
“You attacked us (which you didn’t actually) so I am forced to counter attack you”
(I know that goblins in Silitus should be used as such but Alliance version again makes it look like they do the right thing).
And I wouldn’t burn the damn tree, keep people inside as hostages and then negotiate stuff to end the war.
But it was made clear that it was never her true intention to begin with.
It was started for a bunch of reasons the ‘Honourable Squad’, found valid.
It devolved into something that they didn’t like.
And instead of openly checking it’s path, they either quit, or try to ‘dishonourably’ undermine the effort and cause by active or passive action more deaths.
See, we all get this come from the meta reasoning that has Blizzard wanting to tread again the MoP road in order to try and create an appealing story.
But fact is, that if he had wanted to fight a ‘Good War’, Saurfang had the means to do so but decided not to.
Sigh…
Ok I’ll explain it again, even though everytime people dismiss it.
Her plan was to break down the Alliance, have races argue with one another about their course of action so she can take them down seperately.
The original plan was to kill Malfurion, since that failed she needed a blow to nelfs morale so she burned Teldrassil. Now ok, this is abit extreme true… BUT
As a result, Tyrande dumps Anduin and she solo goes to retake Darkshore.
Darkshore is supposedly still ongoing, however Tyrande sort of “split” from the Alliances plan , which was to Attack Dazaralor at the time.
So practically, Sylv plan is working as Alliance forces are spread thin.
We’d still have to w8 and see though , how it all goes
That might be true, but would be shallow and GOD sb writing.
But judging from her tactics Sylv likes to bait people into traps of sorts, shown in Undercity, where she attempts to trap Anduin and crew, and during her campaign in Lordaeron using whoever suits her to achieve her goal (namely Garithos, Varimathras etc).
So I’d like to think of the BFA story so far as a mega-bait for her enemies truly, as she has taken no action after the Siege of Undercity. She soon will though, even Blizz said so. Guess we can expect progress on that around 8.3
what?
Trust me you don’t want to start this subject as it was quite a chain of fails, and the only reason why said traps in Lordaeron worked was because Alliance was acting highly incompetent. (but so did Sylvanas by failing at basic strategy).
It’s all good if she lures enemies to traps, but could she not lure Horde to them and kill them in the process aswell?
And I’m dreading it so much. I hate metagaming.
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Yes, it started with a good reason, that is why they participated. But she then committed mass murder. NOBODY who is right in the head should be ok with the slaughter of innocent none combatants.
If your ok going around killing shop keepers, children and farmers…then I wouldn’t want to serve in an army with you.
He did fight a good war. He fought it the way it’s meant to be fought, against soldiers.
I for one would love to see all about the results of Thrall’s new woodworking hobby and Anduin’s Warhammer miniatures
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Don’t wanna be that guy, but if Sylvanas Windrunner came to me with this sentence, I would probably laugh in her face. She’s the one who dodged any consequences for what she did in Hillsbrad and Gilneas, and on a much larger scale then Jaina’s crimes.
I’m not saying she didn’t get the Night Elves to split from the Alliance…but that didn’t work properly did it? They are still getting help from the Alliance.
The split is in leadership only, Anduin might have been dumped on his backside, but old Holy Bones is still aiding the Night Elves…as are the Worgan.
Also I wouldn’t call mass murder “a bit extreme.” even Nathanos does a double take when she orders the tree torched.
True but Jaina did do it and two wrongs don’t make a right. Trust me I’m not gonna defend the Walking Dead, I fell out of love with that character a long time ago. That’s why I no longer play my Undead.
But from a speach to the masses standpoint If it stirs the Blood Elves to war, use it . Anyway It was only and example ![:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:")
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Hah, and I sure as hell won’t defend Jaina.
Anyway, I totally agree that the Horde needed a reason for war which would appease both Honor Squad and the other parties.
My own idea was escalation after Stormheim, spontaneous warfare starting because of Azerite paranoia, fear and hatred in both factions, combusting into battle everywhere the Horde and the Alliance share a border or an ambition.
Such a scenario would also dodge Lightforged Calia, another nauseating factor in recent story-telling.
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And he could’ve had continued doing so if instead of trying to bail out by first committing suicide by Alliance, and afterwards opting to rot in a cell, had simply challenged Sylvanas (and killed her, put her in place or whatever) and corrected the course of this war to follow the same goals and modus it had at the beginning. Things that made him agree to it to begin with.
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I have to disagree. If the Horde had seized Ashenvale prior to that declaration, they would have already started the war, by seizing other people’s Ttrritory, thus making the rest of their complaints ypocritical and selfrigtheous.
The Night Elves are under no obligation to trade with the Horde. Demanding they do so under the threat of violence is equivalent to slavery, which is something the Horde at this point should see as dishonorable.
Besides, Sylvanas complaining about Greymane being out for the Blood of the Horde, something that is also false as he only wants Sylvanas and left the Horde alone after SoO, is hypocritical, as she is the reason he is angry with the Horde, and has done nothing to remedy the situation.
If Sylvanas wants murderers punished, she should live by her own words and throw herself in the nearest jail-cell. That way, the Alliance might feel slightly more inclined to do the same.
Your reasons are better than what was given, but I would still like something that does not make the Horde out to be hypocrites. I see the only way to do that would be to make the Alliance more evil. Ramp up dwarven colonialism. Have vengeful Draenei attempt genocide against the orcs. Have humans still take orc slaves etc.
Make the Alliance out to be a legitimate unprovoked threat to the Horde in at least some regards, and I think we could have a conflcit that everyone would enjoy.
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Starts handing out bats
You get a villain bat, you get a villain bat and you get a villain bat! Everyone gets a villain bat!
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Honestly, I would not mind some Alliance villain-batting at this point.
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You and me both. If they were competent villains with an understandable and sympathetic goal, the narrative would be all the more convincing.
First up - Anduin! Then Greymane/Tyrande for obvious reasons. I nominate myself for explicably villainous Warchief.
Not sure if it would fit in with those characters. Players are generally not happy when characters are twisted into something evil to serve the plot. I think it would work better if they added villains to the Alliance. Maybe keep Jaina in her “Disamtle the Horde” mood. Add a few generals out to make the Horde suffer, with Anduin doing little to rein them in. What I think would have been really cool would be if they added a new Archbishop who used the destruction of Lordaeron to start a new crusade to reclaim the fallen ningdom and exterminate the forsaken, essentially resurrecting the Scarlet Crusade, with Anduin too blinded by their holiness to see them for what they truly are.
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Benedictus returns once again? ‘My master returned!’
They have plenty of such people just revving to go another 10 rounds. Genn, Jaina, Tyrande, Malfurion, Turalyon, hell even Muradin if the Alliance loses Arathi and the dwarves get mauled.
That…that was an off the top of my head example…I was demonstrating reasons that could be used to suggest a war people could get behind.