Double Time / Impending Victory / Storm bolt .
Mobility / Sustain / Control
Now, compare that to the much better designed monk talent tree: Celerity / Chi Torpedo / Tiger’s lust
Mobility / Mobility / Mobility
The monk talent tree gives you multiple ways to achieve the same thing. It’s good because it leads to true customization, and although Celerity is somewhat on the weak side, you hardly feel like you’re handicapping your character by picking one talent over the other.
The opposite is true for the Warrior talent tree.
No matter which choice you pick, you’ll feel like your Warrior is missing something. Moreover, depending on what you picked, you’ll feel significantly weaker in some situations than if you had picked the other talent. This leads to a lot of frustration for me, and many Warrior players.
This was not always the case.
Here is the Warlord of Draenor talent tree for warriors: https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/400279.jpg
As you can see, the first row is entirely dedicated to mobility.
Meanwhile, Impending Victory competes only with other Sustain options in the second row.
Here, each row has it “theme”.
This was so much better than the current Warrior talent tree.
I actually think the opposite is the case here. I think the Warrior talent tree is better. If you were to raid with your monk, having an entire row composed of nothing but mobility booster talents might feel like a wasted talent row because it doesn’t contribute anything to your damage.
That’s exactly how it was when I wanted to play PvE on my Balance druid, and having 3 out of 7 talent rows be absolutely useless didn’t feel good at all.
Oh I’m not saying it can’t be useful, just not as useful as another DPS talent. Also I have yet to come across a class that wouldn’t have a sufficient mobility for raiding from the get-go.
I don’t see how your example favors the monk, the warrior row clearly offers more choice, while for the monk row you get mobility regardless, you’re only choosing the packaging, do you want your mobility in a plastic or paper bag?
One can easily make the argument that the monk tree is lackluster and should be more like the warrior.
Corejo (warrior guides on YouTube) explained that some talents rows need reworks because choosing between mobility and defensive does not feel good. We had 1 theme per row in Mop/Wod and it was fine. Now, it’s like you’re missing something that other classes got baseline.
This is why it feels bad, why should I choose between more defensive or better mobility if DH and rogues have both and baseline?
I would also add that mobility in wow should not be an advantage nor a con, because of modern raiding and classes in Pvp. There are still people complaining about ret paladin but they don’t qq about rogue.
In theory, you could argue that. You could say the warrior choice is more “meaningful”.
In reality though, it’s just more frustrating. All three talents are drastically different. Having the “choice” between 0 stun, 0 mobility or 0 sustain just doesn’t feel great.
Well another youtuber explained that having to choose between mobility and defensive feels more meaningful.
We also didn’t have this choose one 1 of 3 talent system and it was fine, depending on your definition of “fine”. Also wouldn’t it feel better if we have all talents all the time? like not missing anything
Because it’s a different class with different strengths and weaknesses, if all classes should have the same defense, mobility, utility, etc then why bother having classes at all? You’re advocating for homogenization, wasn’t that a bad thing?
Now talents are far from perfect, there are many rows i’m not content with, but if i were a dev, i would make them more like the warrior row and not the monk.
I remember from back in MoP i was criticizing this type of design, it was regarding a DK row where you had Runic Empowerment, Runic Corruption and something else, all talents that used different words to essentially say “you gain runes”. That’s not an interesting choice.
Pretty much everyone who mains a warrior, predominantly for PvE, already says that the warrior talent tree, especially arms, is absolutely horrendous, bland and counter-synergy with the class/spec as whole.
Arms, for one, needs a lot of attention and alot of work in general, the talents just make no sense and go agains tthe spec’s intended design, not to mention that currently and in SL the spec feels overwhelmingly handicapped, even compared to fury.
I wonder how long it will take for them to fix the ridiculous rage starvation issue for arms, waiting 2-3 secs between abilities just makes the spec feel like crap
, without stacking ridiculous amounts of haste that is.
Fury is already tankier than arms and has a major self heal every 2 mins, passive healing from bloodthirst and talents. Fury, in essence, is an absolute beast of a spec, especially BGs where it’s 10 times better than arms. Now, i’ve watched recently 2 people, Pilav and Bajheera, playing each spec respectively at a fairly high skill level and fury just dominates, over arms, not only in damage but survivability, Die by the Sword jsut doesn’t come close.
Have to wait and see what it’s like in SL, but as of now, fury is still superior in regards to utility and overall performance.
A bit odd, ill say that much, DbtS is easily negated through various mechanics, as is the whole Arms spec, where as Enraged Regen serves both as a heal and a defensive, the 30% reduction.
Now, if arms wasn’t so awful on its own, the only spec in the whole game that needs to be not only babysitted, but literally carried by a healer to even survive longer than 10 seconds in any PvP situation, i’d accept DbtS as a good ability, but alas.
P.S. I do find it a little bit funny, been spamming a lot of skirmishes and true i see plenty arms warriors, but what’s funny is i just completely annihilate them as fury without even dropping below 90%, even when they play well enough to use Defensive stance and DbtS, yet Storm bolt is all it takes to just kill them.
Yeah you can, i just disagree with your definition of “poorly designed row”.
Granted it has been very clear to me recently that players just don’t like choices.
