There are no RPG players anymore?

Community General Discussion
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Everywhere i look, i just see people saying: This is a chore, This take too much time, Why i HAVE TO do this ?, This is so easy, This is too hard.

I mean yes, nowdays state of WoW is not ideal but i also think that people are a little bit of part of that, not people… rather their mindset. Why people think that everything in this game is mandatory ? For example legendaries, everyone saying how expensive leggendaries are but in fact the “dps” gain from higher level will be so minimal so you won’t even notice, the only important thing is the effect which this legendary provide. And guess what 0,3% higher dps won’t complete content for you, when you stand in fire.

Everything is chore, thorghast is chore, of course its a chore when you play spec you don’t have fun with or love but instead you play something internet told you that is besst in “+20 keys and above” which 95% of people won’t ever touch.

All i am saying is that i feel like people want WoW to be Counter Strike or something. You have 60lvl instantly, you have full gear and you just do raids or pvp.
People get boosted and i don’t understand why ? Why to pay someone to play game instead of me ? Isn’t the whole progression the main part of rpg ?

I just want people to calm a little bit. When you dont want to do something, just dont do it . When somebody pressure you to do something you dont like, dont play with them.
Another problem people have is: Nobody invite me for content because i play this or this or this. Well its not the problem of game(at least for 95% of content). Its just people’s confusion and obsession with numbers. There are 3 solutions: 1. Make your own group
2. Make friends
3. Change people mindset
But to be honest, i experienced many situations when i was tanking dungeons for example, and someone didnt play “ideal” spec, didnt have ideal ilvl but this guy was really good, was even talkactive, So in the end of dungeon i wanted to continue with them so i dont have to form group again, but everyone leaves and starting to look for another group for m+ again. So yea sometimes it even feel like people are afraid of making friendships.

Also i had this friend i made in WoW and because of how he was obssessed by meta and competing we didnt even play together that much because i wasnt ideal spec for arena so “its not worth doing” for me i do arena because i want to just for fun if we push some rating then great if not nothing happens. And guess what he is not playing anymore.

So what i am asking: Is this meta/numbers/competitivity really worth it ? When only thing it cause to you is frustration and negativity ?

P.S. Sorry for my english and dont think that i want to be agressive towards people, I just want to know why everyone behave these days like how i described.

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I don’t understand the whole obsession with playing whatever’s “meta” either - I don’t see the point in playing something I don’t enjoy! It’s a game, it’s meant to be fun.

But I suppose that’s why certain things feel like chores - because there are unfun activities that you have to do in order to unlock the fun stuff. E.g. you have to do Torghast repeatedly so you can make a nice fun legendary (and yeah, some legendaries are very fun and don’t change how you play at all, but that’s another issue).

While there are definitely some people who do just want to skip all levelling and start at max level with full gear, for many others the journey of getting there wouldn’t be so bad if it was actually more enjoyable. We all want to have fun in the end and not feel like we’re wasting our time being miserable so that we can have fun later!

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Not sure what Blizzard having all of this stuff and min-max culture and how it has effected the game has to do with people bring RPG players or not. I enjoy a lot of older RPGs and in fact I enjoy WoW classic(though I enjoyed it more before TBC and straight level boosts. Enjoyed it more before people started buying boosts and GDKP though.)

Everything is a chore because 1) it’s either not fun to do, or 2) doesn’t feel rewarding to do. I haven’t touched retail much in SL for this exact reason. If you play very casually and don’t do M+, raids, or PvP? What’s the incentive to do that stuff really, you’re not really building any ‘power’ and it’s honestly such a grind to keep at it and if I’m not enjoying myself I’m not gonna touch it.

The problem is in retail even while leveling you usually end up starting strong and then getting weaker as you level or you get a certain ability that’s good and then really nothing after to look forward to. You swap out gear so quickly or use heirlooms, you get a new ‘talent point’ every 15 levels which may or may not be very useful and may have been a more baseline ability from your class. Since the rework even, you get some abilities later now than you did previously which makes it feel even worse.

  1. Making your own group doesn’t suddenly make it so you get people applying to the group.
  2. Making friends while doing what exactly if you’re trying to pug said content.
  3. Not ever gonna change peoples mindset lol

One of the main things is people don’t want to be ‘below average’ people will always strive to be better at what it is they’re doing, specifically when trying not to get left behind the ‘average’ group.

It’s just like in Classic, I was trying to level normally but there were SO many people buying boosts by phase 3 and onward that it felt like the average player wasn’t purely leveling normally. Now it’s an even lower amount, etc.

We lost a lot of things that added to the RPG element as time went on in the name of convenience, honestly.

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I think it’s not just the players, part of the problem is from Blizzard’s side. They’ve been trying to make the game competitive so it could work for eSports which kinda spoils it for the majority of people who just want to play the game and level so they can explore everywhere and learn all the small side stories and … most of all … have fun, not getting stressed when they feel forced to do things.
They need to stop pandering to the tiny minority.

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That’s the wrong question to ask. Actually, the question should be : Would the game be better without those systems?

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You know what, you say there are no RPG players but then the same WOW hardcore minmaxing players go to play final fantasy and play the main story to lvl 80 for 500 hours without skipping cinematics. Obviously not all, but it’s simply something very wrong with blizzard storytelling and RPG elements.

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The main reason why the feeling of investment feels like it’s become a chore nowadays is in my eyes honestly the seasonal design of the major content patches.
What’s the point in doing anything now if it’s all made pointless in the next patch?
Why bother playing the game at any point before the final content patch of an expac?
Player power has become a rat race to get on top before the next equalizer (major content patch) comes along and just washes away everything that came before it.
For me its RP personally but not everyone is into that.

So yeah I agree that people should calm down in that chase to power but at the same time the way the game is developed now makes it feel like there’s a constant ticking clock behind you.

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This is happening because players play the game like a puzzle to be solved, just as they play anything else, and if they discover the easiest way to solve it is a way that’s really really boring, then a lot of them will just do it anyway. They can’t necessarily tell before they’ve headed down that road.

It’s the same with the level boost. You buy the game and it literally tells you straight off the bat not to bother with playing the intro and learn the game. Yes I know it does that popup warning but again, people will look at the game like a puzzle to be solved and if you do that then the easiest way forward is to ignore that warning and get dumped straight into level 50 - except that means you fail. You have no idea how to play the game and the controls are super janky for the modern game.

So many people deride me for saying this, but I don’t care and I’ll say it again: The most optimal way to play the game should be the most fun one, and as you correctly point out the most fun way out of this problem is to stop using the LFG tool, stop using LFD/LFR, make some friends, and group up with them. It’s really that simple.

Of course the game should make that easy to do, but it doesn’t. Instead it makes the group browser easy to use. This is a huge mistake. I swear to God, I don’t care about all these arguments like “who are you to determine fun yada yada yada” - dude, it’s a game design discussion. The whole point is to discuss how to create fun. These systems are a breeding ground for toxicity and go-go-go, and I’m tired of it.

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Well sadly, the point is always the same. It makes them too much money for any of it to go away.

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Or simply blizzard should remove all of those elements we never asked for in the fist place. That’s the easy path.

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I assume this is a shot at M+… I don’t get that at all.

A major goal for blizzard since TBC has been “How to make dungeons relevant for longer”. Why? Because they are so time consuming to make, and when players started raiding they became irrelevant for a large portion of the playerbase.

End result M+. And I honestly don’t believe it was blizzard that made it “E-sporty” was more the players when we started competing, and blizzard responded by doing MDI. If e-sport was a goal of theirs from the beginning we would have seen the MDI from the get go, we’d have seen more marketing of it. To me MDI seems like something they throw together because there is a demand for it.

TLDR
I think a lotnof problems are player made.
The competitive nature in 15s isn’t really on blizzard imo.
Or the meta problem in lower keys.

What is blizzard fault tho, is the foolish timegating they place on story content for example… just why?! What is the point of that? :confounded:
Or the complete lack of content outside pvp, raid and M+… where is the mage tower challenges 2.0?
Or fun world content? All world content seems to for some reason to have some kind of reward attached that “forces” competitive players to do it every day… why not give us the buyqble sockets from day one, and then add a bunch of cool cosmetics to the vendors instead… who would be unhappy with that?

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If you look at both games’ pay2play / pay2win systems, they are pretty much alike already. Only difference for me personally is that I stopped playing CS way before those changes took shape…

Making friends in WoW often is like trying to get into an existing friend circle. Either you bring qualities a group / guild is searching for and are willing to sheep or you will end up as an outlaw.

I found some people to play with in the beginning of SL when finally staying long enough again to actually socialise ingame. But they had your typical alpha male at the helm, fitness freak, too much testosterone and wicked manly man ideals in his head, who apparently only started playing WoW but was the leader of the gang irl.

We’ve just started a com raid with another guild, when he decided he wanted to switch factions because the raid progress wasn’t going fast enough for his taste and some other testo loaded rl friends were starting to play again on horde side. And may I add, he was your typical noob human paladin tank, failing hard at every second pull after choosing the class because “hunter didn’t do enough damage anymore after nerf”. The rest of sheep followed his faction change. It ruined the com raid, ruined the social contacts and it wasn’t the first time I saw something like this happen.

If you aren’t part of a group that has known each other for years in the first place, you will always matter less, be easily disposable and will end up isolated if you’re not following the group dictate. Sadly seems to be a social law that applies ingame as well as offline.

Plus the current WoW community is kind of pushing the “unite to achieve” agenda. If you can’t contribute to any groups success or progress, may it be raids, M+ or PvP, you’ll often be disposed real quick and in ideal with a ton of toxic comments on the side. Fun thing, I made more progress after going back to single player mode not helping unthankful gamers gearing while I could have gone mythic raid myself. I’m also able to take the the game more chill not being pressured into hard progress or wasting time on raid preparation if I don’t want to, so more freedom overall.

And to the question if there are no RPG players anymore (I hope I got that right), I switched my chars to Ysera because it officially is an RP server… So far, I’ve not seen much of said RP…

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Bobby Kotik.

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But blizzard did this. They created so many nice things for casuals to explore and on the side still gain some powers. Everything blizzard implemented is especially for the casual who can keep exploring new stuff. For those ‘esporty’/competitive players a lot is a chore. The last thing this game is, is a pandered game for the tiny minority. It is the last that me M+ player asked for. The last.

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I think the misconteption about the “The game caters to the Elites” often come because the so called “Elite” often deal with having to do a bunch of stuff we dont really enjoy and in general accept that, that is the way it is. It gives a picture of the “Elites” being happy with everything, which we certainly are not. It’s just we’re so used to jumping through so many hoops so we can play that part of the game we really enjoy.

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Can you blame players when Blizzard themselves constantly pushes this E-sport garbage?

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Which part of the game is actually created for ‘esport-players’? Everything is done to get the meta and playerpower out of the game with all the implemented systems. Starting with the meaningfull choices of the covenants and at the end the ridiculous conduit energy. Literally everything is done by blizzard to get the esport out of the game.

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M+, arena and mythic raids.

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You are looking at this completely the wrong way OP.

People say “it’s a chore” because it is a chore in fact. It’s DESIGNED like a chore.

Torghast is a prime example of design that does not intend for a player to have fun, but to forcefully make him engage with it in order to get something fundamental for their class (legendary item).

If Blizzard didn’t design things that work like a chore, maybe people would like them more.

If Torghast wasn’t a mandatory part of the game, maybe more people would play it for fun.

But when you design the game like one big pile of chores to be done before you can actually access the fun part, well yea that’s when players will start whining.

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M+ timer, Arena, rated BGS, Torghast with the new scoring system
Basically anything that can be formatted into a competition, even battle pets count to some degree
I don’t really count world first because that’s a one time thing

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