There are two paths for the Horde left

Lore Story
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Something terrible dawned at me tonight.
Considering that the game is in general slowly declining, Battle for Azeroth may be the last expansion where faction identity is front and center. Even if there will be another one like it, by that time the game will be even more of an ancient relic than it is today: it will not make a big difference.

That means that, in the two big expansion where faction identity was put front and center, the Horde was evil, and there will never be a chance to rectify that ever again.

So I hope, I pray, that the second half of this expansion will bring some changes. Have Anduin turn evil. Have Sylvanas be overthrown but have the war continue because the Alliance is hungry for vengeance. Have her turn good, for all I care! Simply enough, there won’t be another chance. This is the last hope for the Horde to go down in history as heroes, fighting a cruel oppressor, as in Vanilla and WC3.

And failing that? Dismantle the Horde. Remake the faction system completely. There is no point for the modern factions to even exist if their identities are so muddled. Blizzard wants an evil faction? Have us play as the Black Empire! I would volunteer gladly to spill blood for the Old Gods. But do not make the Horde into the Black Empire. Do not spit on the legacy of old lore.

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How about we just get rid of the extremists of the Horde and move forward?

Nothing can salvage the “identity” of the Horde in this expansion regardless of what happens and your suggestions to solving the bin-fire which is the Horde’s identity is to set dumpster-fire next to it, E.G randomly make Anduin go evil for no real reason other than to benefit the Horde.

Just get rid of Sylvanas and all her extremists lunatics and go to the next expansion.

Regardless this just seems more like a secret “make the Alliance evil” thread than anything.

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Never! What are you, Jaina-end-MoP era?

Interesting idea to have an extra faction, been mentioned plenty of times no doubt but I seriously doubt Blizzard would do it. Would require new starting zones, solid campaign story (possibly shortened with a new Hero class/race), completely new interactions with this force we’ve never met before. The Old Gods have been openly portrayed as massive villains with this overly long build-up as early as C’Thun in vanilla.

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I think it’s a bit late for that.
The present Horde is a spit on Thralls ideals.

Sometimes I question why the hell is Thrall the founder of the current Horde when clearly, ActivisionBlizzard keeps showing what they miss is Gul’Dan Horde.

My opinion: they know the majority of player base would never play a pure evil faction, like the first Horde, that’s why.

I have read discussions on US forums, one player suggested that had Thrall Horde been able to blossom, peace would had been the outcome, between the Alliance and the Horde.

Thrall Horde had everything to achieve that, it had fought Archimonde along side Malfurion, Tyrande and Jaina.
Jaina, with time could had easily been the bridge between the Horde and the Alliance.
After that : World of Warcraft 2.

From what I gathered in weeks I was posting in the classic forum, players feel that WoW just had too many expansions.
The reset button should had been pushed after WoTLK, according to them.

What happened after WoTLK: Cataclysm.
I called it: Catastrophe, followed by silly pandas, senseless back to the past, to bring Gul’Dan (a proof none in our time is worthy to summon Sargeras) and a return to Orcs Vs Humans.

So what to expect in the future ?
More evil actions, by the “I am not the first Horde” Horde in exchange for beautiful Alliance races like the : Blood Elfs and the Nighborne.

Why are the racials better on the Horde side ?
Because Horde needs players that’s why.
Remove the racials that give advantage to the raiding guilds. Allow players to decide what they really want and watch the Alliance player base explode as back in Vanilla.

That’s my opinion.
Cheers.

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I agreed with you until i read that sentence.
Both had a reason to join the Horde. And both are no real balance for forcing the forsaken on the Horde… they have been the bane of coherent Horde storytelling since vanilla…

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I think that she mean all the Sylvanas Fanboys which are mostly Blood Elves and Nightborne chars, which play Horde because they want to be different but doesn’t want to play a “ugly” race on the same time.

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Again, and again, and again. Or maybe Horde is secretly USSR? Free periodical purges for everyone comrade.

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Warcraft needs war to drive the story of a two faction game.
And given the Horde is more easily and more open to fall on skewed and reprehensible mindsets, they are often used as jack of all trades to push any war forth. It’s races are easily driven to do such things.

Why does that happen when at the other side you have empires founded on conquered land that were described in old lore books as constantly squabbling with each other? Reticence. And stereotypes writers fall into. Pretty races are the good guys.

This imagery is often sold in such way, that Alliance players end up, generally speaking, less willing to let reprehensible narrative sully their story. Because who wants to do something you’d be held accountable and be punished for, when you can play the undisputed Hero?

That creates a circle where writers find themselves more unwilling to quit their preconceived ideas regarding most their races. No need to leave their comfort space.

So in short, the Horde will often end up feeling more villainous. And characters like Anduin, while sheltered and pushed forth by people like Golden, make sure they are kept that way.

At this point, for Anduin and his literal bulletproof moral compass (magic bones) to do anything remotely divisive, Blizzard needs to give one of the sharpest turns they have ever done.

PS:

The ones that were driven to cause trouble, and were used for not one, but three expansions of warmongering and internal struggle, was the core Horde race. Orcs.
So far, Garrosh reign in Pandaria remains ten times more harmful (for the Horde races), than Sylvanas so far.

So I’d cut or moderate the classist tone that dumps the blame on but a single outcast Horde race, because each one had its turn inside the crap hole. Blood elves had their share in BC, Orcs in Pandaria and WoD, and now Forsaken in BfA.

You can paint a twelve floor building in a single swipe with that broad brush. Kudos.

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What do you try to say to me :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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He’s trying to point out to you, that you are heavily generalizing specific Horde players and their intentions

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Look at the forum, that’s just true. I’m not saying that everyone who play x race is a Sylvanas fanboy. I say that the majority of Sylvanas Fanboys play this races.

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Do they really? I don’t know man…
What difference does it even make? Also what’s bad about liking Sylvanas?

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It’s to mock this people, that’s simple. To say that they doesn’t care about the Horde at all and just care for superficiality. That’s why the majority which dislike Sylvanas say that if you play elf you aren’t a member of the true horde, u like Sylvanas only cause of boobs or because she is a hot undead Waifu. Just to name a few examples which you can read here and in the general forum.

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Forsaken Commit warcrimes since Classic. With Sylvanas Stamp of approval.

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I don’t know… I think most of the people you describe are simply fed up with the way their faction is handled by Blizzard and would rather stick with Sylvanas than to follow the <Blizzard approved way™>. It’s pretty common and a soft form of rebellion.

I can sympathize with them… I freaking hate the way the Alliance is being portrayed by Blizzard and every time I get something more to my taste, they immediately paddle back on course.

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As did plenty other Horde races. You think that because they are portrayed as some comic relief, what goblins do is any different from slave labour? That the gnome slave blood elves keep in Silvermoon is there because he likes it?
That all the treatment orcs gave night elves in Ashenvale is any better than the stuff Forsaken did back in Vanilla to humans?

The Horde has never been written to follow our conventional and standard RL moralist mindset. And it probably never will.
But if you are to say that this all started with the Forsaken, I’d refer you to the orc experience in Pandaria and Cataclysm. And of course WoD.
Or to the Zandalari/troll mindset.
Or to the criminal organisation that basically makes up the playable Goblin faction.

Ding, ding, ding!! Bingo.

Yes. The Waifu Card.
A childish mannerism that was artificially created in order to indeed mock the ones that enjoyed the kind of story Sylvanas pushes. And probably would’ve still done so had she been a buffed human male.
If I started tomorrow arguing about how the new Night elf outfit was created because players like you are just horny teens that like to see some skin…how would that make you feel?

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Erevien rebels against Blizz but nut the majority of those people. They’re seriously like the way of Sylvanas cause “for the lolz”.

Which one. This which makes no sense?

I also think that it is the reason too, so I would probably agree with you. Stilly it’s unique from the vanilla trailer and I would wear it probably too.

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Well you do you, but with that attitude, you won’t bring anything productive to the table.

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We killed Garrosh for his bs, and the Zandalari don’t so nearly as much Bad stuff… Never saw them experimenting on people, make whole regions uninhabitable or other stuff Sylvanas did.
Sylvanas and her loyal Forsaken should Just Stop being undead and Start being dead. Their reason to exist died with Arthas.

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Ok. I will clarify, what I meant.

Thanks, but that’s one of the reasons, but not all.

You see I have been having this on going theory on my head that ActivisionBlizzard knows if the game turns in to pure good faction and dark evil faction, not many people will play as evil guys, as OP suggested:

What to do than ?

  • Tell players that both factions are “Morally Grey”, like this case:
  • “Buy” players with good looking races.

This analysis was further increased after a exchange with Kalibas.

Which he replied:

As you know Kalibas loves WoW lore especially Night Elf lore, in which he writes entire essays about it.
Try to explain to him the reason behind Nightborne joining the Horde and not the Night Elves is “Lore” reasons and not game play reasons.

I read a discussion in US story forum that every time the Horde had been villain batted, there wasn’t enough players quitting, so they know they can get away with that.

I think Arctur is right when he wrote:

Thanks for your attention.
Cheers.

2 Likes