Popular for liking or disliking.
That’s the core problem and her popularity only grew, for both good and bad, in Cataclysm with no resolution to the Gilneus storyline.
Now we’re in what I call “muddy terrain” because people don’t like her, but then we run the risk of having another Warchief and the whole lore surrounding what it meant to be “warchief” will be discounted.
How can the mantle be taken seriously when a new Warchief is made every expansion or so…?
And yes and no. Right after assasination he requested PC to gather intel and pretend that he died, while also asking to contact Thrall. Thrall went to echo Isles to free it from enforced by Kor’Kron Martial Law. So you could say that this is where foundation for rebellion started. But during all this time during Vol’Jin abscency he was plotting what to do. Darkspears alone couldn’t do it, so he needed support from other leaders. Once he had it he had a free pass.
Meh I don’t see it that way. Vol’Jin didn’t swear any Loyalty to Garrosh and he only demanded rexpect, which Garrosh denied him. To me it looked like two faction leaders fighting between another. It happens IRL alot, and people also tend to esalate stuff by saying nasty words.
I’ll blame Garrosh for that, because he started it and I think he actually wanted for it to happen because this is what kind of person he was.
Take into consideration that Vol’Jin was cooperating with each other leader and nobody was treating him this badly and as Garrosh was, and that with nobody else he had such a heated fight.
Garrosh though? He was a rampaging oaf that was just looking for conflict, and since Trolls aren’t known from diplomacy but from short temper, it was bound to happen.
It can be taken seriously and I’m sure that at the end of BfA the most players will be really disappointed of the story. Blizz just created a new ****show of the horde again 
Popular:
Liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group.
If people dislike you, you are unpopular.
the word you are looking for is devisive
We’re all gonna look back at this thread and many other faction controversy threads in a few years when we find out Baine’s story unfolding.
Just like Vol’jin, we’re gonna fiercely defend Baine and his actions because we have already seen the positive outcome he has done by then…
…And then proceed to rip-the-hell out of the current storyline controversial character(s) with accusations of traitor and such. Come on, we all know it’s gonna end up like that.
Alright then, thanks for correcting me.
You might not see it that way, but you can’t deny it at the fundamental level that this was treasonist.
Yes, that’s the word, but it’s the fact that people are so decisive about her and is why we’re in the mess that we’re in now.
Sylvanas does things and gets away it “because we musn’t annoy her fans.” That’s the lame aspects of the story and why it’s hard to get invested in it. I’m sure things will improve if Blizzard sticks to their word for 8.2, regarding the Night Elves, Nightborne and Naga - it’s just this faction conflict lark that’s dragging it down.
There’s never a solid conclusion to her story and now, it’s just getting dragged out.
By doing that, they’ll keep her as Warchief and come out with some shoddy writing whereby it’s “Teldrassil was getting corrupted once again…that’s why it had to be burned.” Then Tyrande, Malfurion and Sylvanas will all be bessie mates for life.
He didn’t owe Garrosh any loyalty but to the Horde, by standing up to Garosh he didn’t betray Horde he was defending himself and his people.
He didn’t had in mind any ulterior motives, nor he was plotting it from the very beginning, it was outburst of temper, which Garrosh started.
If there is anyone to blame it was Garry for escalating stuff.
We don’t dislike Baine for standing up to Sylvanas. We dislike Baine, because his reasoning behind standing up to Sylvanas, hasn’t anything to do with her stretching the Horde apart or doing evil stuff just for the lolz(Because that line should have been Teldrassil). No. He stands up, because Sylvanas is mean to the Alliance and, even more important, being mean to one of his two BFFs from the human potential squad. In this term, Jaina is the wronged party he tries to impress with his actions here. Washing his own hands clean and spouting hot air. That’s all Baine has ever been capable of. I am willing to do any bet, that the cutscene where Derek is returned to Jaina in Theramore, will show Baine loathing how much he still love his best friends(Jaina and Anduin) so much and the Horde is stupid or sth. I am expecting the worst with Golden writing that crap.
So pretty much:
But Garrosh by all means is the Horde, the Warchief position is basically the Horde as everyone who has had that title has changed the Horde to how they have wanted it to be.
Even so, Baine is in exactly the same boat as Vol’jin. He just wants the Horde to be what the Horde should be, the way it was founded back in Warcraft 3 and not how it is currently.
I am not trying to smear Vol’jins cause in this, the reason I am arguing about it is that the same principles which Baine is “rebelling” against the faction leader. While they have different methods on how they do it the end result and motivation is the same.
This will be controversial but just hear me out xd, I don’t think there is that much wrong with his relations and interactions with Anduin and Jania.
But I do agree overall. Baine should have more cause and not just focus on the “bff’s” and have way more focus on the fact that the Horde is being evil. Jania and Anduin should not be the primary focus, it should be defending what it means to be Horde.
The second controversial point, I am glad there isn’t a downvote button on here.
I think the hate for Golden’s work is overblown and turned into a circle-jerk, she isn’t as bad as people make her out to be. albeit her work has always been either hit and miss.
There is more to the writing team than Golden and she isn’t the one with sole power over it.
Mainly because Baine’s portrayal under Golden aims at some gentle pacifist, but falls as short as to portray an almost literal coward only willing to act either when better men are carrying the bulk of the effort, or when the welfare of certain people that he is supposed to side against, is at stake. To the point that he rather neglect the well-being and interests of his own people, or downright act with a decisiveness against them, that he seldom shows against his enemies the rest of the time.
And because of that, he is being nothing like Vol’jin.
EDIT: At this point i’m starting to feel like it is not Bad Writing and Baine is just a bad leader. One Blizzard should just acknowledge as such and either fix, remove, or at least stop pushing forth as representative of what a Good Chieftain is.
And just like that I stopped reading. No offense.
Thrall’s Horde was based on brotherhood in arms. Not terrorising everyone beneth you. Vol’Jin was one of the co-founders of the Horde and he and his people deserved the respect, especially from rookie alien who didn’t participate in Horde’s creation but was given the mantle.
Also Blackhand and Garrosh proved that Horde=/=Warchief. Once Warchief is crossing the line, they can expect answer.
Nobody would hold against Baine that he is standing up against Sylvanas. As Erevien said, it’s the way that he is acting is what is displeasing people.
He isn’t acting because his people or Horde is getting harmed, he acting with Alliance is involved, and this is the main difference between him and Vol’Jin. Vol’Jin took on pedestal well being of Horde and his people, Alliance was his last concern.
Guldan proved differently even if he did lead from the shadows there was no rebellion under his watch.
But he was the reason why Blackhand was killed off. Orgrimm was displeased that Shadow council was involved in everything.
Can you then explain to me why this is bad, from a writing standpoint and not something which you personally dislike?
It was indeed, and that is why so many people miss the old days of the Horde.
And yes, I do also agree with the fact that Vol’jin and the Trolls deserved a lot more respect than what Garrosh gave them.
Not entirely, Blackhands Horde was Gul’dans Horde and same with Garrosh as they tried to turn them into their image of the Horde. All this shows is that not everyone underneath them will change and fight back if it becomes too extreme in any direction.
The part where he is doing it for the Alliance is over-exaggerated, it is certainly an element of that but he is doing that because he knows it is the right then to do. It just so happened that Derek in that case was the brother of Jania. There is plenty of other times he does it for the Horde and not because there is Alliance involved with it.
And I think you forget that Vol’jin basically became best friends with a Human hunter and made a bloodpact with him. It was just lucky for that Human to show up twice in-game and be dropped.
No I didn’t forget about that human pet. But Vol’Jin wouldn’t put friendship with him over his own faction. Khort shown him that there has to be balance of power and it made him hate humans less. But considering recent events I guess he would just throw him under exception and continue to hate humans again.
When you make a bloodpact with him then it sure throws a spanner in the works. And if push comes to shove and Baine was forced to save the Horde over his friendship with Jania or Anduin then I would at least like to think he would put the Horde first (at least the true Horde and not Sylvanas’s version).
I can’t really comment on that as I do not know much in regards to BfA. I am still trying to find the motivation to log on let alone level my Horde character.
Baine shrugged off the Alliance firebombing and butchering the people of Taurajo.
I can find it in myself to give Magatha a shot at redemption for getting Cairne killed in a Mak’gora, challenged on false grounds.
Besides, Baine basicly betrayed his own people too in midst of wartime if you think about it. Magatha lending her aid to the Tauren tribes in these times is perfectly viable opportunity.
And yes, Garrosh would’ve been beaten to mush by Cairne, Cairne was one of the deadliest warriors on Azeroth in his time, so it was once written anyway.