No point in arguing, it is hot topic for sure, but ultimately we are just farting in the orkan here.
Let’s see what they will cook up, like they removed GDKPs from SoD. Would be interesting to see how it impacted PvE scene in the end.
Ok. Maybe a different approach will help you see my point.
What boosting? No boosting here! We and the guys are just helping our old friend…er. John with m+
He didn’t pay any gold to us!. His alt paid… er brought a useless grey junk item for gold! What? He is a grey junk collector!
Also we didn’t advertise any boosts! "Just wrote: 4 very kind gentlemen will help you with your m+ key cause we are that kind. Just come on discord channel so we can talk about how kind we are and certainly NOT discuss anything gold related.
This is just a primitive and ofc very “obvious” work around but the point remains.
Blizzard can stand on a soap box and announce whatever degree they want.
All they will do is will cause the boosting scene to go more shady and underground. The boosters and boostee wont simply close up shop cause “papa Blizzard said no”.
So once again. Stop being an idealist and understand that its not a simple matter of Blizzard turning the Boosting “light switch” to off and problem solved.
Blizzard can’t change people and their nature. If somebody wants to get boosted then a demand will find him.
We can only argue on how “on the ground or underground” that happens…
Edit: Just to add some extra example. Before you mention “Well if the bostee stays afk” then its obvious a boost? Ok. Will ask the bostee to come and auto-attack the boss.
Not doing enough damage? Oh so its “75% parse or banned for boosting?” Yeah sure… the “anti-elitism” brigade will gorge like ravens on this. 
Absolutely this aswell, just page after page of bots spamming and selling. It looks and feel tinpot.
1 Like
I mean… Lynlia explained it wonderfully…
Look. Say we got a Ret Paladin that loves to PvP. There quite a few thousand of those. He is in a PvP guild, with his Arena buddies and he likes to murder people for fun. Thats his gig and he has the right to play as he wishes.
HOWEVER… turns out there is a 2-hander leggo that drops in the raid that gives him an edge. So what do you expect him to do?
Leave his PvP guild. Join a PvE guild. Farm all the PvE gear, raid for 15 weeks to get his leggo. And then… leave the PvE guild and return to his PvP guild with his buddies that paciently waited for 15 weeks for all this process to happen?
NO. He will simply PuG the heroic raid. Farm the PvE gear through M+ and wait to be accepted to the raid. Once you do, we ALL know how that happens: 3 to 4 h of drama per week… And early in the season? I can guarantee you he will NOT even kill Fyrakk for the 1st month.
What would ANY reasonable individual do? Pay some boosters, get the raid cleared in 1 h and move on with his life. Thats what he would do.
So…
You are asking blizzard to hire a legion of people to develop some banning algorithm and ENFORCE the rules? All for what? To fail misserably like the have been failing for the past 20 years?
How about this:
Hire the same people to think about ways for our PvP buddy to not have to PuG the raid. Or atleast, make it so its not such a drag.
Things like:
- PvP gear ALSO scales in Raids.
- Make the leggo acquirable outside the raid.
- Improve mechanics so its not such a drag to PuG the raid.
- ect…
Each “solution” has its pros and cons. Hire people to analyze them and consider which one is better.
Once a solution is taken, then our PvP buddy will have no need to pay for boosters.
THAT is how you deal with boosting.
1 Like
Make a better m+ system then.
You currently try to apply to group for hrs without an invite or just toss some gold to the boosters and have it done in 20 min
For example. Spend time and money on this.
Wanna hear your ideas guys !
Hard to improve it without absolutely breaking the ecosystem of tanks - healers - DPS.
You could automatize it fully, which means draining the remaining pugging tanks and healers away.
My estimate is most of tanks and healers like their specific position and enjoy being able to cherrypick who the play with, they enjoy their higher value on pug scene = no waiting time whatsoever, and besides that my estimate is that even more play with their networking contacts, rather than apply to sub-par pugging DPSers.
However!
The changes to dungeon distribution could mean what I saw many times in threads here, so I guess it might make a lot of people happy.
From my perspective, it might help a lot on the casual end with a lot of people being able to enjoy without stress.
Then again, with the overall less key numbers it will be much more steep and unforgiving world for your average DPSer so I foresee, as a tank in 3k RIO performance bracket, much more DPSers to pick from and boosting business will be even more bussin’.
But it is possible to do.
Here is my list of suggestions:
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Allow Crests and Flightstones to buy key upgrades. To make key depletes less punishing. This means (A) it incentivizes people to run their keys. (B) It gives a way to upgrade YOUR key by doing someone else’s key. Incentivizing completing (and timing the key).
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Implement kiss/curse affixes to incentivize higher key completion.
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Expand the rewards beyond +20. For example, 0.2%, 0.5%, 1% and 5% tittles. And by SPEC, not overall. To incentivize off meta spec play. Remove the vault all together. No more Mythic level gear for doing +20s. You get Hero Gear. You get Mythic gear in the vault by doing +23s and above in the vault. And it literally drops in M+ if you manage +26s or above.
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More and more aggressive tuning cadence. So that the “not being the meta” becomes a non issue. Separate Raid and M+ tuning with “in raid it does XX more/less” auras for each ability/talent.
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Rethink damage profile in M+. Cap damage to a maximum and increase HP from there. To incentivize healers and tanks to participate, while maintaining a reasonable challenge.
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Finish homogenizing problematic skills: Dispels and Externals. Its annoying that in dungeons like DHT or EB if you have a poison dispel you can cheese a trash mechanic, and if you don’t have poison dispel it 1-shots people… ALL healers should be able to dispel EVERYTHING. Or NOTHING at all. Not some clases yes and some no. PI and other similar 1-person externals should be made to a personal, not an external.
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Fix the Raid vs. M+ gearing issue by implementing Dinnars. With 2 of these dinars you can buy Raid, M+ and PvP trinkets and weapons. The Dinnars will be the reward at the bottom of your vault (the 6 “whatever” in case you dont want anything). It means that if you want that fancy Raid trinket, you have to renounce a vault upgrade for 2 weeks in a row. BUT you get it.
Those are the most important changes I would do.
and why is that a problem for u ? you can just toggle the service off in chat options like i have in cities.
2 Likes
Okay, sounds fair. If you are interested in my personal perspective on this:
- I am perfectly fine with that. I believe there could be way to improve your key with your resources, I think there could be way to use crests and flightstones to buy gear as well.
Not sure what it would incentivize. You wither want to run a key, or don’t. If you just fill 8 vaults slots per week, including your push to a desired rating, you have no need to run additional M+ outside of purely personal reasons. - I agree with you, but in my experience methods like this led to some very toxic displays (S1 SL for example). And it was mid-range people now buying boosts, who cried out the loudest for removing those.
- I am fine with this as long as the rewards are not gear realted. I do M+ only for gear so naturally, this would be an obstacle for me. Also, spec capping the rewards would be pretty interesting as people who really want those will gamble and abuse the system and remove the mid-level competition out of equation. = therefore not really much in terms of engaging the mid range people.
I disagree with vault removal, I like vault and I like to pick 1 myth item per week. Removing it will just make me recalculate the feasible gearing path as of now, it would remove me from around 80 M+ runs I did, because I would have no other reason.
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Tuning cadence could we even on weekly basis, I won’t switch DK regardless so no impact for me whatsoever. I would say, let’s even out the classes so only class specific differences stand out.
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Damage profile is fine, if let’s say damage is capped at +20, in my case it will be easier in higher keys using closed parties off limits to random socializing player. We will just get to our desired rating faster, in a week or two. Then finish gearing to a feasible level, and then drop M+ altogether until next season.
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I am not experienced in the topic enough to comment.
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Sounds okay, but for me to make sense, would have to be paired with removal of Myth track from M+. So that I can drop off M+ faster in a season and put effort elsewhere.
What would you think of my response as sort of example of one player and would you have some compromises or supplementing thoughts on your initial proposal based on this?
It would go a long way to just not enable this channel on newly created characters. I personally don’t see a problem with boosting in concept, but I do believe that it shouldn’t be automatically promoted the second you log in. Not to mention it’s such a spam fest that it makes twitch chat look like child’s play.
After all a boost is something a player should have to go out of their way to seek out.
It incentivizes people running their keys instead of waiting in Valdraken queuing. In your case: You want 8 +18 vault slots. Fair.
So. You get your +18 key on Wednesday. You do it. You deplete it (for whatever reason). And now… your done. You will quew in LFG for 8 dungeons.
With the new system, you can do 2 dungeons in LFG and upgrade your key. Try again. You will wait less time in LFG overall.
Also, the rewards in crests and flightstones. It gives them purpose beyond the first month to upgrade gear. They will have a use after you are full 6/6. Also, it will give YOU more rewards for actually completing one of the 8 vault keys you do.
But nobody complained about “shrouding” affix of S4. The toxicity will depend on WHAT affix is implemented. But that is what PTR realms are for.
Point being, that ZERO kiss mechanics creates more toxicity and SOME kiss mechanic.
This would be paired with my last suggestion of the Dinnars. And the “no myth track gear for a +20” is in line with raid gear. Where if you want myth gear you gotta raid mythic. Want myth gear in M+, you gotta time keys in the equivalent “mythic” difficulty range.
And IMO personally, I think that the generosity of the system is good enough. Because if your goal is to only do 8 M+ dungeons, Hero 6/6 is just 6 ilvls bellow Myth 3/3. Not really a big deal.
Also, the Vault has the problem of a massive RNG because of the massive loot table. Its just eye candy. FEW people will get Myth track Iridal from DOTI for example. But, you have the option of BUYING it with dinars.
It does to people that complain that they spend too long in LFG. For their 8 vault dungeons of course.
Its not fine. Its “fine” in a 20. But if you step foot in a 23 and abilities begin to 1-shot you… its not fun anymore. Many people quit. And some, just pay some boosters.
And when I say “cap the damage” I mean not a 20. A 23ish would be more appropriate. Its when things hit you from 100 to 5% with CDs popped.
All this so people actually can give it a shot and not farm M+ for gear and thats it.
In the end, it WOULD de-incentivize you from doing M+ just to farm gear. Yes.
But IMO, you shouldent be in the first place. I dont know what you do in the game. Maybe you raid. Dunno.
But if you raid, you should not have to do 80+ dungeons to gear yourself up. You should do dungeons because they are fun for you. And if they are not, then dont do them.
So dungeons have to be FUN. And FUN is not all about rewards. There is more to it.
And gear/upgrades should come naturally through the activity you are doing. Whatever that is.
the sad part is if they ban boosters orgrimmar & stormwind would be even more empty lol only chars i see there are booster alts
Thanks for the response.
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part, I accept your explanation and it seems fair enough for me. Maybe not oriented a me but ok. However, I would be concerned if it wouldn’t be necessary to make the key be universal and you choose the dungeon.
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OK fair enough, I accept that.
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I still have to say I like myth gear in vault for +18-+20. I know a lot of people cried out for that, I am happy Bliz agreed and hopefully this isn’t going anywhere soon. I also raid mythic so I am not target audience for this change as well, so I can’t provide my ideas.
I see vault as a regular baseline net for raiding only, M+ vault is something I don’t count on due to excessive RNG and have my plan to account for that. -
I have to disagree because right now it might seem like good idea, the season is very mild and timid and that is the reason people are playing it. When seasons were hard, people didn’t want to play it, not speaking about pushing above +20 at all. You just can’t funnel more people above +20 keys if they don’t want it themselves regardless of any incentive.
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I focus only on the goal and target, that is what I like and enjoy. I both raid, M+ and PvP as Blood DK as long as it serves me a purpose.
Returning back to original complaint - that its either Drop the gold (thank you in advance btw) or wait for looong time in LFG. I estimate I am not the only one who gets through gearing and M+ in as efficient way as possible, wo knows.
But all in all, the changes you propose are ok with me although not for me, I think they could help a large part of the people and that is why I am interested and would say - go ahead, but inevitably, it would drain one more tank from the Group Finder.
I strongly dissagree with this.
If you raid mythic, get your gear through raiding. And if that requires changes to the whole raiding concept, then im not the appropriate one to discuss that. But maybe, give Heroic and “farming runs” a purpose once more.
I do mainly M+ and have some laughs with friends in Heroic. The complete opposite.
And the main issue is this “farming content you dont want to do”. I am not here to discuss your came choices, but those choices should should not imply “chores”. In any way.
You clearly dont like M+. AT ALL. You just want the gear and to move on with Mythic Raiding.
I clearly dont like Mythic Raiding. AT ALL. But I still have to farm it to get the gear and move on with my M+.
And those two sentiments is what fuels boosters. Dont want boosters? Dont make me farm the raid. Dont make you farm M+ for gear.
Il be honest here: I have people pay ME for M+ boosts… so I can give the Gs right back to them so they can boost me the raid for gear… Its ridiculous… I kinda prefer to NOT have to do this. I dont want to have to get payed for boosts to finance this lunacy. I just wanna do my keys and thats it. Its a game for gods sake… 
And any issues with rewards in M+ should have solutions to fix M+ issues. Not to fix issues of Raiders that farm them for gear… And vice-versa.
I am fine with whatever change to the raiding and M+, really. I just need to know in advance at least a little bit so I can sit down and calculate the most efficient way forward and to the goal. That is all I care about in this game and it is the same for almost 20 years playing it. And I love it, both raiding and M+ so I am not sure where you think I don’t like it?
I like raiding. Because it is with my raid team, I like spending time with them and I consider them all to be better players than I am, also I feel they have VERY little tolerance to mistakes. Just by spending time in raid with them, I improve and I get all my mistakes and feedback handed to me so I always have things I can work on in my performance.
On the other hand, raid tanking is very rigid, requires precision and no variations as much as possible, as I have to take care about 18 people. It can be challenging but I am happy to be able to do so.
I do like M+, I started originally as M+ player, I like to meet my RIO goal and farm BIS. If there is incentive for me to continue M+ I like to do so.
The incentive can be either Myth track item in vault or gold I get from other players (I don’t do that boosting community stuff, I am old school kind of booster “OG mercenary AKA feel free to write me in game and we can discuss the terms”, and I don’t really seek such things proactively anymore.
M+ is nice because it allows more freedom in my tanking style, e.g., I can drink while tanking keys. Pushing our RIOs with my best friends is nice time at the start of the season, always.
Both raiding and M+ in my gameplay supplement each other, I don’t see the division you present really. And I must say I am happy for it to continue. I am looking forward to the dungeon changes, it seems like promise to be finished with M+ much much faster which leaves my hands free to other items I love in this game.
Correct me if im wrong:
Because you said prior that you are only interested in the 8 weekly dungeons for the Vault.
That sounds to me like you dont like pushing keys. Just farming gear.
Thats what I interpreted as: “results oriented person”.
My apologies, I understand now how you meant it. Yes, my target RIO is 3k and once I reach it, I don’t need to push further and so I focus on different things. Although, if I asked by my friends or raid mates, I am happy to help and play above +20s.
Outside of the above-mentioned, there is only gear and cost/effectivity ratio of “does running more M+ dungeons move me forward at a reasonable price?” And if not I am doing other goals in WoW.
Why would you ban some players helping other players?
How would you catch players doing so? If a highly geared players helps his friend do something will he (or both) be banned? Can you only help players in your own guild or community? So me in my own guild can’t do stuff with my friend with his own guild?
Or is it the giving of gold to another character that you want to ban? So my friend joins the game and I give him 10,000g to get started, am I now banned?
2 Likes
Thats exactly my point. Why only 3k? Why not more?
Not enough rewards? True. Its an M+ issue that cant be solved as long as there are raiders involved (not necessarily you).
Also, its 3k for you. It can be all 20s for someone else. It can be KSM for someone else…
As long as you have a goal. And the way to achieve it is by having fun instead of getting frustrated, boosting will stop.
Move forward in what? Thats the magic question.
Forward in Rio / M+ enjoyment, ect… great. Agree.
Forward in your Raid (or other activities)? Not so great. Disagree. This should change.