Timers shouldn't be this harsh

Community General Discussion
1

Ok, hear me out… The timers, even though they are more lax than last season, are still too punishing for no reason at all. Back in the day people chilled in dungeons and just focused on finishing - now you have this “esport” pressure to finish “in time” and oddly by standard ingame UI you can’t even see timers for +2 and +3…
Sure, timers are super easy on 10+ but when you get into 20+ it gets a little harsh. You can avoid actual wipes but single deaths with long runs back can set you back too much.
Today I finished a Vortex Pinnacle 20+ we timed with the timer actually showing 0:00.

We’ve had a talk that it was a 0,5 sec between a “good run” and a “terrible run”. We didn’t have wipes but a couple times someone died and we had to do groups as 4.
The timers feel almost oppresive. Combined with some awful affixes, the whole experience is kind of toxic.
Look at raids - there are no timers in raids - bosses no longer berserk as in the past - it’s all about doing mechanics properly and finishing at your leisure. You can take prolonged breaks between bosses and try a boss as many times as you like.
Imagine you couldn’t progress to the next boss in a raid if you don’t kill it in 15 mins after the last boss was killed.
I just don’t like timers. And I’m not someone failing dungeons miserably - every season I get teleports, decent rio and whatnot but the timer doesn’t make runs any fun or exciting. It’s just annoying and infuriating and makes the whole experience poor.
Completion despite having andies in a group or despite having troubles is not rewarded - only “pro groups” are rewarded. I feel bad for players with less skills who struggle in lower keys. We hear about leavers… if there was no timer, or if it was more lax, there would be less leavers, I assure you of that. Blizzard needs to change its M+ philosophy and make it friendlier for both casuals and pros alike. There is no fun in missing a timer by 1 second.

10 Likes
2

The problem is not the timer, the problem is the deplete.

I wanted to make a new discussion about something that happened recently, but frankly i got really tired of arguing the same points with people who clearly don’t think.

HoI, everything is going well, tank makes a mistake, pulls a double pack after frog boss, people start flaming, tank doesn’t leave, makes the same mistake, but adds are basically dead already so not a big deal, and we are well in time, the warr and his shaman friend leave immediately as soon as the other pack is aggroed.

And i am stuck with a 15 key on my monk that no one wants to do. It’s already hard enough to make groups for 16 and up, aside 20, between 10 and 15, it’s dead, i’m not joking when i say that on average it takes me more time to form groups than actually complete the dungeon.

Obviously i have to pay the price for this because i’m stupid enough to put my key on the line. And these damn f heads, sorry the word, but i am really pissed, walk away scot free.

And this is not just a player problem, this is a problem that blizzard created.

But i also realize that punishing leavers is not the solution because there are legitimate reasons for leaving a group. So the actual solution is to make losing kinda irrelevant, and you just go again.

This obviously should not happen, if you fail the timer, the key won’t upgrade, why slap this on top? No one aside the leader cares about the deplete, and frankly “punishments” are not the reason why i wanna play the game.

And if you wanna downgrade the key you already have the tools.

This is not the only issue i have with m+, but it’s definitely top 5.

I will not reply to people saying how i’m wrong about asking for the removal of deplete, you don’t know wtf you are talking about if you disagree frankly, and you should use your brain a little more. And honestly i am tired of arguing with people who clearly don’t think.

The best way for m+ would be to have a system like torghast, where you unlock the level and do it whenever the hell you want.

But that would lead to people running the same dungeon!

No it won’t. First of all, people don’t just wanna do the same dungeon over and over, you might grind a specific one for some time, but that’s also happening now… Eventually you’ll want to do other things.

2 Likes
3

We should get a rating based on speed with a minimum and maximum. Deplete should happen though, but I think it should just be a little more relaxed, and instead of having only a +1 theshold, there should be 2 thresholds:
One threshold for -1, one threshold for +1 and the thing in-between should be +0. Not completing a key should always result in -1, but for every single member in the group, so the pain is shared. +1 would then be the current +1, and +0 would be the “tolerance time”, where you still get rating for a completed dungeon, and the -1 would be the time, where you wouldn’t get rating anymore for completion.

Logically, this should fully solve the problem in my head, but I’m not all-knowing, so I might be wrong and I might have overlooked something, but I don’t find any flaw in this proposition.

1 Like
4

I always have been suggesting a non downgrade on keys that are less than 5% of time over the timer. And maybe a 2nd charge on the same key.

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No it wouldn’t.

If the deplete still exists you won’t solve anything.

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The deplete needs to exist though to account for the difficulty difference between dungeons, so people don’t get overwhelmed as they progress key levels. However, +1 should mean you “mastered” the key level, and +0 (no deplete) should happen, if you completed it in a reasonable timeframe. -1 should only occur, if it was clearly way too overwhelming for you. As said: Key needs to automatically downgrade, but under less punishing condition than now. The answer is usually in the middle as always.

1 Like
7

No it really doesn’t.

Unless you mean the key changing after you completed it, by deplete i mean specifically the key automatically downgrading.

There is no reason why the key should downgrade, if you fail the timer or people leave, the key should just stay at the same level, and you do it again, if you complete the dungeon after the timer ran out, you do the same level but a different dungeon.

End of story, i already argued enough about this.

8

Only because theres a audience who seem to think the fact its possible to fail content as bad design.

1 Like
10

Back in the day of Challenge Modes, you could attempt the same challenge mode dungeon again and again wether you failed it or not - no real punishment for failing a Challenge Mode.

5 Likes
11

Exactly. Removal of failure. U cant fail content if there isnt a downfall to losing.

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in raids you can’t fail the raid - you can try the raid boss until the end of time with no real punishment for failing. Why M+ must be punishing again?

1 Like
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I don’t understand if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me honestly.

Your comments seem opposite to each other, one gives one impression the other the opposite.

14

In raids u dont grt vault rewards for failing the boss either.

If u fail a boss fight in raid u get 0 loot. In m+ u still get dungeon loot and vault progression

So the fact you still get something is more then a raider can say

15

Id much rather get no loot and no vault, than deplete is i had to choose.

Either way if you defeat the dungeon you still did it, just not in time, if you didn’t kill the boss you just didn’t kill it, they could reduce the loot to only 1 piece, i honestly don’t care.

16

Something says a majority wouldnt agree, at thr end of the day gear progression is the real end game here.

Gear makes content easier, which results in general progression

A raider has to leave the raid to farm m+ to make their game easier.

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I’m sure you know what the majority wants, i’m done here.

You people think you know it all, you don’t know crap. Which is why you support the deplete.

1 Like
18

are u any different if stating im not? lol

the fact you think players would rather lose both Loot and Vault in trade of no depletion is crazy. if they did this, everyone just mass quit at first sign of no 3* u’d delete the entire point of finishing the key lol. the concept u think the majority only care what ur RIO Says is madness, because thats what ur saying

Most players value RIO Progression above gear progression.

i support depletion, because i think the idea of spamming a key continously til a group carries u is incredibly degenerate to gameplay.

if u do a change alike ur little scenerio there, you’d have leaders disbanding groups to prevent completion under any circumstance of failure, because for the leader FINISHING a key untimed would be the worst case scenerio for them.

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I started reading your first post in somewhat of agreement and listening to your points, then you turned into censoring words, and now you just attack anyone who gives a counter view.

Quite honestly you’re appearing to just be a sore loser…

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Don’t have a problem with it at all, doesn’t affect me does it. But I think you need to put the forums down for a bit or maybe even m+…

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If noone wants to do your 15 its most likely because you have very low score on IT. Downgrade IT till 11 and get more score and gear. Repeat enough times and people will join .