Exactly… 395 is BiS, even if the chances of getting it are a snowball in hell chance.
No your 385 bis item can be outdone by a 395 TF something else was my point.
My DK has a socketed 395 item from Darkshore Warfront Quest… I got a socketed 385 from the current Darkshore Warfront Quest, 15m ago.
The game gives these items to me, I don’t look for them. It’s all well & good saying don’t use them if I feel they over gear me but I don’t get why I’m made to feel unworthy to have them, esp. if I don’t immediately see what difference they make to my throughput… if any.
I don’t think anyone is saying don’t use them…
anyway to the topic.
The issue comes from looking at a drop and instead of saying oh that looks nice, it’s a case of that better tf/wf or it’s pretty much worthless.
Because lets be blunt that is the state of gearing now, and everyone is a victim of it.
But I’ll give an example of why this is bad, we now have players in gear they can’t utilize, I was doing a m+ the other day when 2 dps in the group were 370+ ilvl yet doing less single target dps than me…I was the tank doing 7k ish dps. The skill gap must have been horrendous for that to happen because I’m not even that good a player anymore. I as the tank had to heal the avatar in temple of sethraliss…yay…and sadly can’t multiply myself to do galva pillars while everyone stands on the stairs.
I’m guilty too, I see gear and think to myself ‘I hope i don’t get the baseline version’ because that would be worthless.
But that thought wouldn’t exist if tf/wf weren’t in the game.
Gearing up should be rewarding, but the rate we can gain gear is far far to fast, at one point I had enough spare 370-380 items in my bags/bank to gear 4 melee players (I don’t throw it away right away until I’m sure I won’t need it).
Right now I can’t see how anyone is feeling rewarded for playing by having gear almost thrown at them.
I’m a firm believer you should earn gear appropriate to the content you do, some bonuses could still be added to that.
Warforging for me does that better because it has reasonable limits, doing normal and get wf to hc or hc wf to mythic levels.
Titanforging takes it too far, lfr…tf can do mythic level…
I don’t understand how people don’t think that is borderline game breaking.
In the gap between raid tiers like now having good catch up mechanics like we do is fine but everything should have a limit and Blizzard appear to think that limit should be Mythic raid level gear.
I don’t raid mythic and don’t intend too either so I Accept that my highest gear is heroic from any given raid tier.
I can’t recall a single point in the past 14 years where I had that much gear equivalent to Heroic raid gear just stuffed in my bags.
Not yet in this topic about TF, indeed. Not yet.
I made so many times the suggestion to make TF an option. I am fine with warforging (max +10), but not higher, and not sockets. I want an option to turn it off for me. Then everyone is happy.
Please tell me how people are supposed to feel rewarded if they can’t gear at all. Let’s say 340 is the best you can get without raiding or doing mythic+10 dungeons. What do you think will happen?
I can tell you that a ton of players will hit a wall and just stop playing. All just so a few people can feel special. And that is basically the only real criticism I can see here, mythic raiders and high keyrunners want to feel special. To accomplish that the raimaining 90% of players should be unable to aquire endgame gear. I just don’t see how that is benefitting the game. And I have seen no other explanation on how the game would benefit from removing access to gear from most people. This game doesn’t have any secondary progression except gear, so the instant I hit that wall I will leave. I will not suddenly start becoming a raider, I will play a different game.
Raids and mythic raids especially (and high mythic+ as well) are a niche content only enjoyed by a small group of people. Taking people’s progression away won’t make them like that content and putting the people who do enjoy it on even more of a pedestal just so they can feel really special is not going to be good for the health of the rest of the game.
This isn’t 2004 anymore, the golden age of MMOs is over and there is a lot of competition to go to if you can’t get anywhere in this game as a normal player.
Be realistic here for a moment, if they removed mythic raiding from the game they would lose less players than if they removed the warforging system and loot from warfronts. These demands are unreasonable.
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Oh please the issue is not that they can’t get gear, far from it.
from the content I do I have more than enough gear to gear multiple players after throwing it away.
It was the same at around 340 ilvl too…but we can ignore that right? because we threw in the special snowflake response.
The sheer volume of gear obtainable is beyond a joke at this point.
A revamped song comes to mind when I think of BFA and gear drops.
it’s raining gear!!! hallelujah…
How about the fact that you should get rewarded for the content you do with appropriate rewards?
Or do you expect a pay rise every day for just turning up?
Yes lets be realistic.
Yes lets be utterly blunt.
gear gets thrown around like it’s going out of fashion, and it’s hardly making the game interesting or engaging.
It shouldn’t be the challenge that it was back in Classic but it certainly shouldn’t be what it is now either.
And they say people are actually looking forward to this classic relaunch…I truly wonder about that given some responses in here.
You do, you get achievements, titles, mounts and pets that those that don’t do that content can’t get.
Umm I don’t use pets…that’s pretty obvious on a simple inspect of me pet usage…
But yes mounts and such are one of the aspects that mythic raiders get…which I also don’t get as I don’t raid mythic…
I’m a simple heroic raider that does some mythic + dungeons.
Yet I also know that my rewards shouldn’t exceed what I do. Maybe I’m just realistic in what I expect to get from the game and find this gear raining on me just a little off.
I’m certainly no snow flake, I honestly don’t care but if a mythic raider has better gear…low and behold I expect that and I certainly don’t expect to catch up to that player from the content I do play.
But if I don’t expect to catch up to the mythic raider…you can guess what’s coming next?
I don’t expect the lfr raider to catch up to me either.
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Unlike many I don’t armory police - so what you have don’t have is unknown to me tbh. Maybe that’s why I think the way I do. It does not matter to me what gear you or anyone else has or how they got it - so why should what gear I have matter to anyone else but me?
If you’ve enough gold you can go and buy boosts to get gear/titles/mounts/pets so at the end of the day what you have is pretty much all irrelevant. That’s another reason why I don’t care what anyone’s got.
No and I’m not saying you should care what gear I have or anyone else has.
This topic isn’t about what people have, it’s about what they should be able to get from doing content.
I’m not even against keeping warforging, as for me that is a suitable bonus in terms of design and player engagement, Titanforging on the other hand is not.
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Honestly; why do you not feel special in 340 gear in the content you are doing? When apparently gear makes you feel special.
And the M+ (10)/raiders are not trying to feel special since there is no gear to get from, there are not even tiersets. They play for fun. I am not signing up for my zillionth +10 or higher this evening with my guildgroup ‘to feel special’. It is fun. Gear has nothing to do with trying to feel special. It is just a process of doing higher and higher content. Or at least; i thought.
By the way; you can also do +5’s. It gives you ~360 ilvl. The niche is at +15 and higher.
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But it’s not though - it’s about what gear the OP has and how he(she) doesn’t feel special because someone who did less content got similar gear.
My argument is “so what”? Do you need to feel special in a game so much as to worry about what others have got? If so, then why aren’t titles/mounts/pets/achievements enough? And that is the key question.
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Well yeah, imo the welfare gear ilvl is more of a problem than TF, which is exceedingly rare. The welfare gear is limited sure, but still… Getting 1x 885 guaranteed per month and if I’m lucky 1 or 2 more 885 pieces. And then the same numbers again for 870. That’s quite insane ilvls (and those are numbers that are guaranteed, not a 0.2% chance).
I don’t care what happens to the forging system so I have no horse in this race but the whole outrage does show one thing: a vast amount of raiders never cared about raiding as an actual gameplay experience and merely slogged through it for the prestige and advantage the loot provided.
Now that the prestige is diminished and the advantage isn’t as great, a lot of those “Blizzard should provide more challenging content instead of wasting time on casual content.” supporters have either stopped doing the content they were asking for or stopped playing altogether.
Most of your gear is from mythic 10 cache, you only have 2 TF pieces on you (by now, same as anyone else who regularly plays the game) which amount to probably an average of 5 ilvls or less. Without TF you would be 380 instead of 384.
You see that’s the problem with complaining about titanforging, you have to be disingenuous and lie about it. You just point to a number, say you didn’t kill any mythic bosses and imply that’s because of titanforging, when it’s clearly not.
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For some people, getting better items for the sake of just having the best gear is very much a thing(less so nowadays though).
For me personally, I’m not raiding mythic and arguing for gear with an ilvl equal to mythic difficulty, to be restricted only to drop from mythic bosses just because I want to stand in a major city afterwards and “show off”. I have zero interest in that, in fact, when I’m not online repeatedly doing IEs, or doing daily WQ clears just to get enough AP to be able to activate traits on gear that drop from mythic level, or if I’m not online to raid.
Then, I’m not actually online. I’m doing other stuff. Outside of the game.
Again, some people do/want gear for the very reason you mention. But not everyone, far from it. For those that do not have this as a reason, this gearing system brings a lot of pain and uncertainty as it’s never a guarantee to get a piece to warforge or titanforge. I would argue it’s enough RNG involved in if it drops at all or not.
For someone who’s farming uldir and pretty much has all the items he needs, I kinda like the off-chance an improvement drops it makes raiding a tiny bit more exciting.
And why? You have end game gear anyway, would it be problem if forging didnt exist and you just got your 385 from raid as end?
‘‘10 ilvl higher than me’’ That is like 388 which is absolutely insane, what the hell are you talking about.