Titanforging, masterloot, etc... Blizzard you're killing the game

(Adirei) #1

Seeing players with no skill at all grabbing 395 titanforged items out of normal uldir zerg, warfronts, etc… (where they sit around <10k dps in the meters) is just frustrating…

Combined with the bad class designs at the moment this is bleeding out our guilds. Before all the titanforging you had actually do certain content (mostly raids) to gain access to better items, but now most ppl just ask themselves, why going through the learning curve of encounters, when with a bit of proc-luck even an worldquest can provide an item with the highest itemlvl.
Emissary quests providing 370+ loot, another 385 from warfront and you’re set to go easily up to around 370-380 itemlvl. Not one of it requiring any form of class understand at all, just hitting the keyboard with your head will work for it.

Since the start of BFA our raid/guild lost a lot of the better players (they quit wow…) and other are just not willing to participate in raids anymore, when you encounter a few of the more difficult mechanics. I asked them why they are so unwilling to push a little bit harder and almost anyone gave the same statement: “why bother? just doing some world quests and participating in a warfront every other week actually provides me with better equip.”
This is effect is even enhanced by the removal of masterloot, where we at least could redirect certain loot the the ones, who actually gained the biggest upgrade by it. Nowadays I have to keep a crappy 380 ring, that is actually ~20% worse than my 370 bis-stat+socket ring, and I am not allowed to trade it to a teammate, that’s still wearing a 370 ring with useless stats.

Yeah I know many will assume, that I’m just jelous of the ppl having the better item. Let me tell you, that you’re very wrong indeed.
I gave up Mythic raiding, when I rerolled to dh with legion due to my limited time I could invest into the game after I graduated and got a job. So I knew that the highest gear will be out of reach for myself. I joined a small more familiar guild, which only is persuing hc-raiding. As I still wanted to enjoy the raid encounters (one of the real strong points of wow imho) but did not have the time to put in hours and hours of consistent mythic progression. But even I started asking myself lately: Why bother, if apart from beating the encounter there is no interesting reward waiting anymore. The removal of tier-sets is a major factor here…

(Leymaiden) #2

Is your raid group of people participating just for the gear just as imaginary as the tonnes of people getting 395 from normal Uldir?

(Adirei) #4

soon they will be…

(Leymaiden) #5

Maybe they should reconsider their priorities then.

You attest to having given up mythic raiding. So now you do heroic only.

Your average ilvl is 375, with 370 being the base for heroic raiding. This means you are somewhat exactly where you are supposed to be.

Maybe stop tilting at windmills. 395 don’t drop like candy like you claim to and you are a prime example of that and so am I and everyone else whose ilvl very much averages around the level of content they commit to.

(Ishanku) #6

Feel free to inspect me if you don’t believe in the heart of the titanforge proc. I quit raiding and M+ ~2 months ago btw. My gear shouldn’t be anywhere near as good as it is.

Heck, I got 381.3 ilvl in bags, but too bad mythic Uldir trinkets are worse than a crafted 355 one. I’m also not even wearing all my 380+ titanforges either.

So yeah, I’m 11 item levels above the content I did 2 months ago. Sounds perfectly fine.

(Rezista) #7

Titanforge is the single worst thing that ever happened to the raiding communty.

(Leymaiden) #8

Insert “that’s just like…your opinion man” meme here.

(Rezista) #9

The opinion of the majority of raiders. We tried it for 2 expansions, it doesn’t work, it literally breaks the difficulty level, we saw that in Emerald Nightmare, because of it since then, we are getting retarded mechanical raids with raid whipe mechanics from a personal mistake, so that we can’t play poorly, while overgearing content on the 2nd week.
Titanforge forced the devs to make bs mechanics for the endgame bosses so that they don’t drop like flies. We have had:
-Helya with her lazer that one shoted people regardless of item level (before Nighthold).
-Guldan - stacking raid damage mechanics and wiping the raid regardless of item level.
-KJ - one of the worst soak mechanics ever made.
-Aggramar - have fun without 2 blood death knight.
-Argus - lol.
-Ghuun - having a gimick mechanic that forces most of the raid to do, regardless that a lot of the classes are absolute garbage at it, as well as a RNG mindcotrol mechanic.

(Adirei) #10

like yours :wink:

(Leymaiden) #11

True, but I’m not the one making claims based on my opinions.

It’s a fact that your ilvl corresponds heavily to the content you are doing. It’s evident enough in your own armoury.

Your claims have no such numerical basis other than your precious feelings about how you think some random guy outgeared you with normal uldir even though that has never happened.

(Rezista) #12

You outgear me pretty heavily with your 6 sockets. Even though I have cleared the tier, while you only killed 5 bosses.

(Leymaiden) #13

Oh sure, because we didn’t have bs mechanics before that.

Firelands Ragnaros one shot the RAID with half his mechanics and one shot people with the other half and no one cried about it.

(Rezista) #14

Dude, we haven’t had a normal patchwork fight since Ursoc. EN was the last standart raid tier. Everything after was made purly for the sake of stopping the world 20 guilds to clear it in one reset.

(Leymaiden) #15

And what would having a patchwerk fight achieve by being there?

(Rezista) #16

A fair assestment of what classes are capable of. Instead of having to stack warlocks for their most gimick spell that was never needed beforehand. 4 nerfs into the tier and Ghuun still requiers atleast 2 gateways.


So agree with the OP. I’ve said in another post that gear used to be the main progression system. But now…

Apart from the fact that we are force fed with epic gear everywhere, even ilvl means little because there is a very good chance that a higher ilvl will be a downgrade for the character (especially with azerite pieces).

And with war/titanforge you can easily have gear from heroic being better than mythic.

But that is NOTHING compared to forced personal loot. I can never understand why this happened in the first place. Why at least mythic guild groups are not given the option to go master loot instead. Who would harm… I really can’t understand this…

(Leymaiden) #18

Well, I don’t agree with G’huun requireing multiple warlocks either. I’m ok with a fight requiring up to 1 of a specific class though. Similar to, let’s say, Gruul’s first boss room which required 1 mage.

However I don’t find that relevant to titanforging.

(Rezista) #19

Have you progressed the fight? Not only does it requier atleast 2 warlocsk (4 makes it a lot bareable), but also 2 monks (healer/healer or healer/tank), a bunch of solo runners (idealy 4, but 3 are good enough) and a bunch of teleport on target classes like druids, monks, warlocks and rogues.

A bs gimick mechanic that is essential to the fight, because making a standart fight can be easily outgeared by pure luck on the 2nd week. (Again - Emerald Nightmare).

(Ishanku) #20

If gear was worth a damn nowadays then a Patchwerk could act as a gear and class performance check for the top end guilds and a gear + class + player performance check for the rest.

I also love how you simply ignored my gear being inflated as f*ck.

(Leymaiden) #21

If you are reffering to mythic, no, haven’t had the honour, nor do I expect to kill more than Zul and Mythrax this week.

But I am aware of the overall class stacking it requires. As said before, I don’t agree with it. I think it would be ok if it was 1 side, but 2 is pushing it too far.