Worst comparison I have ever seen, but okay.
I mean, healer balance is literally closer than it has been for YEARS and people still consider MW “unviable” for some reason.
The reality is that pretty much all of the people complaining just aren’t very good at playing the spec because they are no longer carried by corruptions and insane mana regen mechanics like claw/lucid dream.
But isn’t that a reason to make it shine more? You don’t increase player engagement by having an under-represented spec being also thought of as the worst performing and hardest to master.
It would be hard to say how much I fell in love with the monk class since picking it up in WoD. I mained MW since 8.1. It was rough, but viable. Lucid Dream was such a blessing to us when it showed up, and Maut’s trinket was icing on top. I really enjoyed MW in 8.2-8.3. No, I didn’t have a good raid cooldown, but I was the HPS machine, so everything was ok. Nobody questioned why I was in the raid. The meters told them.
Then came SL, and it culled both options and gave no replacements. I’m not an HPS machine now because I get throttled by mana. I still don’t have a good raid cooldown.
So now I’ve started doing keys as dps because I’m actually embarrassed by how slow my runs feel when I heal. I’m sick of saying “wait, let me drink” every 3rd pack, meanwhile our resto shaman doesn’t even ask the mage for a table in the entire dungeon. I keep getting asked “how are you out of mana?” and I have to say “because 9.0 broke me”.
That our mana issues may be played around if you have the right group composition doesn’t mean that it is a good and sensible place to leave us.
Yes, mana tea is helpful, but we shouldn’t have a row with two trap choices that aren’t useful. We shouldn’t need a helpful boomkin in our party, or an understanding RL who will tell the resto druid they’re not to innervate themselves.
I just want us to work reasonably without external bonuses or complicated party setups that other healers do not have to take into account 
Honestly, I would take a 10% cut to our healing output if it came with a 20% improvement to our mana efficiency per cast. I know that MW can burst heal a single target, but my RL is talking about bloodlust in the 2nd healing phase on Kael’Thas… and I’m there at 2% mana by the time the phoenixes show up. What use is bloodlust to an OOM healer? What use is an OOM healer to the raid?
Even I’m starting to question my own raid spot. For nearly two years I couldn’t imagine playing anything else, and now I’m kind of eyeing up a druid alt and wondering if I like that more.
Where are people getting the idea that MW has mana issues? I really don’t get it. Are you literally just spamming vivify?
I looked at your most recent Huntsman log and you are literally just playing the spec incorrectly. Your enchants are off, and your soulbind is “bad” too. It is a very small sample size so I could be wrong and I apologize if I am… but you’re simply not pressing your buttons, that’s it.
You say you liked MW in 8.2-8.3 but we are literally much better now than we are back then, so what do you mean? You are also forgetting that other classes also lost Lucid Dreams and Claw… it’s not just Mistweaver, and other specs go oom to. It’s just a lot harder for shamans because they are pretty overpowered right now.
Shamans can definitely go oom on harder fights. It’s just that heroic doesn’t have enough healing required for them to do so.
Now, innervates; you don’t “need” a helpful boomkin in your party. All it does it make your Yu’lon window stronger and that’s it. As for resto druid, if they innervate another player they still get 50% of the effectiveness themselves. That means free spells for someone else and mana tea for themself. This makes innervating someone else the correct play in pretty much every case.
You are questioning your own raid spot despite the fact that Mistweaver is in a much better state now than it was in BFA? To me this just reinforces my point about people just not knowing how to play the spec very well. I know that’s harsh but it is absolutely true in this case.
PS: MW slaps on Sun King
This is your opinion, like what you wrote about that monk is not the worst healer class. I don’t think that he is unplayable, but he is the worst in comparison with others. Many people think so, and there are those who are more experienced than you.
Try to play without the abilities of other classes like “Innervate”, “Mana Tide” and maybe you will understand these people
Then genuinely: please educate me.
Because as far as I know, I’m running recommended everything. I was a good MW in 8.1-8.3. Did we change so much? If not, why do I suck now? Why do so many people think there is a problem if there is no problem?
And no, I rarely spam vivify. Of course I don’t.
I’ve always tried real hard to get this class to shine, but I am having a real hard time in 9.0.
I can do just fine without innervate.
Go speak to some actual Mistweaver theorycrafters and top players and see what they say about the spec.
Hint: We’re of the same opinion them and I.
The reason so many people think there is a problem is because they are so used to having infinite mana and corruptions that just carried them through everything in BFA. Claw and Lucid dream were insane and acted as a crutch for a lot of players.
Okay, so let’s go over the good and the bad from just this one Inerva Darkvein log (Huntsman damage pattern sucks for like every healer, so we will skip that one).
Right off the bat I can see that you are using Kleia instead of Pelagos. Kleia is indeed better than Pelagos but only when you have 34 renown and unlock her last ability. Until then, just use Pelagos and make sure you use Weapons of Order whenever you have a good opportunity to do so.
You are running Jade Bond and Grounding breath. Now, Jade Bond is completely fine but it is only worth running if it gets you an earlier(and better) Celestial window, or if you get an extra celestial cast out of it. For most consistency, try running resplendent mists or the revival conduit. Keep in mind that pretty much all of our conduits suck 
I use resplendent mists for everything (it’s pretty good in m+ actually).
As for Grounding Breath: This ability looks really good on paper, but it has a 1 minute PPM and a 1 minute ICD. This means that you can only get ONE proc per minute. Instead I would suggest the fortifying brew absorb shield one. It’s nothing special, but it is better than Grounding Breath
Enchants & Gems: You are using the + mana enchant on your chest, however this enchant is only worth using for shamans because they gain % mana on crits. Instead you should be using the +30 stat enchant as it is currently better than the alternatives for us. Main stat is insanely strong right now, so you should prioritize it when possible.
Cloak enchant is good, so just keep enchanting +20 stamina +30 leech on any new cloak you get because leech is overpowered.
You are using +10 enchants when +15 enchants exist. It’s minor, but everything helps.
Now for the gems. You should replace one of your crit gems with the +7 int gem, and probably the +6 int gem as well for your other socketed piece. Intellect is far better than secondaries right now, so this is definitely the play.
Eternal Grace is not bad, but Celestial Guidance is just way better. On my Mythic Hunger Destroyer kill I had a 51.38% uptime on it. That’s about 2.6% main stat on average and it affects your damage too (which is a big part about playing Mistweaver)
Before I get to your spell usage, I’ll go over your talents real quick.
All of them look fine, except for your first row.
Mist wrap is okay, but it is only better than Chi Burst when your Yu’lon accounts for like 20-25% of your healing. Chi Burst is insanely good, and it can easily do 4-5% of your healing if you use it on cooldown when there’s damage going out. 4-5% free healing from a talent is hard to pass up on, so make sure you use it.
And now we are getting to the interesting parts.
You are running Rising Mist which is absolutely the play for every fight. This talent is insanely mana efficient, and not using it properly is most likely the main reason why so many Mistweavers are complaining about a lack of mana. With Rising Mist, it is absolutely vital that you use Rising Sun kick as close to “on cooldown” as possible. This is even more important after you have used essence font or yu’lon, because it extends your hots and gives you a lot of healing for just 750 Mana (RSK mana cost). If you are not using RSK enough, then Rising Mist will not be as strong as it has potential to be. it’s not easy to get used to this playstyle change, and I myself am still using RSK far too little so just keep practicing. I would recommend getting a weakaura for this, as it really does help.
As for legendaries, your three best choices are:
Tear of Morning
Ancient Teachings of the Monastery
Invoker’s Delight.
Tear of Morning is your most reliable “all arounder” because it’s not bad on any fight (or amazing, except for on Stone Legion Generals). It’s not very noticeable, but is considered to be the best legendary for the majority of players.
Ancient Teachings of the Monastery (aTotM) is very good as well, but it loses a lot of value if you are not using your Tiger Palm, Blackout Kick, and Rising Sun Kick enough. You should be DPSing whenever you don’t actively have to heal. This legendary rewards doing something you should already be doing in the first place. On your Inerva kill it did 9% of your healing which is just crazy when you consider it’s free.
Invoker’s Delight is my personal favorite, but it’s not used very often and I would not recommend crafting it if you are not comfortable with Celestials. It’s insanely good on Sun King, Sludgefist, and Denathrius. On Heroic Denathrius I have reached peaks of 20k sustained HPS for 25 seconds with 40% overhealing while using this legendary.
You could use the breath of yu’lon legendary, but it’s just not as good as the other choices.
On Inerva you used 21/36 Renewing Mist casts, 7/11 Thunder Focus Tea casts, and 20/34 Rising Sun Kick casts. ReM and TFT should be used on cooldown, as they are both very mana efficient and will provide you with a lot of healing. Essence font into 2 Rising Sun Kicks is a ton of healing for a relatively small amount of mana. Rising Sun Kick is a bit harder to use on cooldown, but you should still try to cast it more than you did on this fight. Keeping on Renewing Mist charge ready for a big mana tea burst window is also a good strat.
Your mana tea’s could definitely use a bit of work as well. If you are not currently holding it for a celestial, your standard “rotation” is this:
Prepare by putting out Renewing Mists > Essence Font > Mana Tea > Spam vivify until the last GCD of Mana Tea > Essence Font again.
As for Yu’lon, this is what you want to do without Innervate:
Essence Font>Yu’lon>Mana Tea>Enveloping Mist until Mana tea is over, then use TFT RSK (1 RSK), 3 Enveloping Mists, and then RSK again before using Enveloping Mist until it’s over.
Keep in mind that you will never have to spam this many spells during Yu’lon as there’s just not enough damage in Heroic and most Mythic bosses to actually do so. It also costs a ton of mana, so unless you have an innervate I would not spam throughout the entire thing.
For Chi’Ji you want to cast enveloping mist after getting a single stack of whatever that buff is called. If you are tight on mana, you can get 2 or even 3 stacks to make it even cheaper. Chi’Ji is generally the play on most bosses, so I would advise you to stick with that.
A small thing to note is that if you use Tear of Morning and have 4 Renewing Mists out, Vivify is more mana efficient than Essence Font. Mana Tea also becomes a lot better if you have 2-3+ vivifies out when you press it.
You are using TFT on RSK which is good, but it’s fine to use it on Vivify as well if you are in a situation where mana is tight. Using it on Rising Sun Kick is generally the play though.
You understand that EF and RJW are your best spells, and I can tell that you are pressing them relatively often. Keep this up, and work on the other things and I guarantee you that your mana will look better.
Okay, the very last thing I’ll go over are stats.
If you are playing Rising Mist, then try getting some more haste. You can play it just fine with low haste, but it becomes a lot better with a decent amount of haste and is just more fun to play. I’m personally aiming for 19-21% haste before I start prioritizing crit again. If you want to play it safe though, then just stack crit and vers.
My fingers hurt a bit, so I apologize for any slow replies.
Of course you can, but “fine”? I see in the logs that not.
What about my most recent hungering destroyer kill? Every healer except for Disc is awful on that fight, and I still did second most damage and healing despite absolutely wasting an entire innervate because I only “used” 5.7k mana during it. In fact I played horribly on that fight and I still did a pretty good amount of both healing and damage.
How’s that?
Why should I not take your “PRO plays” as example?
Yes, because at that point you would have more conduits unlocked, higher ilvl legendary + higher ilvl gear and thus can take a bit of beating, do more dps and heal more than the top 10 guilds did at the time.
Why does that matter? It’s one of the easiest bosses in Castle Nathria so it showcases what you and the other healers can do rather than basing it on some clutch first-time kill.
Imagine not realizing that if you have to press 1.5-3x as many buttons to heal during an encounter it decreases the time you can spend DPSing or doing other tasks.
You like to look at top logs and top 10 guilds. Perhaps take a look at DPS done by each healer spec on every boss.
Guess what: Even Holy Priest outdpses Mistweaver Monks – We’re outdpsed by every single healer.
Now take a look at highest HPS done by each healer:
Guess what: All other specs outheal the Mistweaver Monk with exception of the Sun King’s Salvation encounter where you actually only get higher HPS because of the orbs you’re picking up. So that’s basically a fight you cannot even take into account.
So Mistweavers are outhealed/outdpsed by every single spec on the top of the boards on every single encounter. Now your excuse will be “But they’re the top players meh meh meh… you don’t look at top logs” – But in matter of fact you do, as the top of the crop showcases what the limits are for each and every class.
Yes Mistweaver is still viable but is it the best pick out of all the other healers? No, it lacks in pure HPS, it lacks in pure DPS and it lacks in utility. There’s nothing that Mistweavers actually shines in for there to be any reason to pick a Mistweaver over any of the other classes. The only reason for a Mistweaver to be picked is when that player is way better than the other person playing any of the other healers. If the other healers are similarly geared and similarly skilled at their class the Mistweaver is the first to be dropped.
Yes, everybody is bad at the game and you’re the best. Even Wowanalyzer said you did everything perfectly and are the best player in the world /s
Imagine taking the Sun King Encounter as your prime example why Mistweaver is good… What a joke… Sure it slaps when you’re tasked to pick up the Infuser’s Boons that gives you Increases all healing done by 50% for 14 sec. This effect stacks.
What are you on about?
I’m going to ignore almost all of your points because it’s very clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. Responding to all of your nonsense is pointless. Honestly mate, 90% of the things you say are just you grasping at straws and being wrong.
I am not using Sun King as a “prime example”. It is just A example.
Yes, every healer CAN out DPS mistweaver but they DON’T because it’s way harder for them to weave in damage during the fight. Look at my most recent Hungering Kill. I did 3 times as much damage as our Resto druid, but I only parsed 6% better on damage. This means his 109k damage as normal as my 340k damage.
Now get out of here and try stepping foot outside of normal raid before commenting on a spec that you clearly cannot play.
I mean you are basically putting words in my mouth at this point, so there is no benefit in replying to you anymore.
actually you’re parsing way higher numbers consistently than your other healers. which says a lot about the players, not the class
Strange, because I take actual data to make my statements…
It’s the worst example to take and you know exactly why.
So simply said: Your Resto druid just isn’t that good.
So because we don’t agree you feel the need to use ad-hominems again. Very immature…
Using logs to gather data while not actually knowing how to look at said logs. Funny.
And the Sun King comment was in reply to Alewín. Not you.
But it’s only 3 min fight. What are you trying to prove? Or you don’t understand how the duration affects the HPS and the remaining mana?
Mythic Hungering is a 6:30-7 minute fight.
Lol
/20chars
Lol, that was a very long response, but well thought out, thank you.
Soulbinds and Conduits
I’ll certainly think on these. Indeed I’m not impressed by any of our conduit choices, but it is true that I am not firing up Yu’lon on cooldown, and as such, reducing that cooldown is pointless. Will have to research Grounding Breath… it specifies a 30% proc rate, so if it’s only 1/min then the tooltip is outright lying. I don’t stack mastery (because Rising Mist) so Resplendent feels like it would be less useful… but again, I’m not taking advantage of reducing Yu’lon’s CD anyway.
Enchants and Gems
Take your point on the gems. Enchants is… well, the chest is me reacting to a lack of mana by trying to get an extra cast or two of something in there. The weapon enchant is the Icy Veins recommended one for M+, but indeed since I’m less inclined to run M+ as healer… maybe. Bracers I’m just being tight. That’s a very costly enchant on my server, for a poor item.
Talents
Noted. I think I’ve been avoiding Chi Burst because my bar is completely full of buttons, but the sane thing to do is swap it over Expel Harm, which as far as I can see, should never be used as MW. It has a place as WW, occasionally, but not when healing.
Legendaries
I have all 3 of these available and have been trying to feel out the best one for me.
I wanted to love ATotM but… its tendency to heal a dps on 90% instead of the tank on 10% puts me off it for M+. It seems to handle better in raids, since there are other healers with direct healing and I can reasonably be an AoE healer - but not all fights are amenable to being so melee dependent.
As much as I tend to refer to it as Tear of Boring… Tear does seem the better choice most of the time.
Rising Mist
I’ve been running this since before it was considered the right choice 
As a result, I have custom weakauras helping me track RSK and RJW, and I use a TFT-RSK macro to get as many double kicks as possible without having to clutter my bar and brain with an extra button.
Spells
In general, the one thing I would say about not hitting TFT+RSK on cooldown; it means I don’t think it’s useful at that moment. Maybe only 5-6 players seem to need healing and they’re all ranged. Sometimes I hold back because I know our druid will have HoTs on lightly injured players and they’ll stabilise without any action on my part. Not great for the logs, but gentler on my mana.
ReM misses are probably on me, tbh. It’s easy to get overwhelmed when the damage spikes up and start prioritising spot healing over getting those mists rolling; which is of course a feedback into a bad state. I’ve done this long enough that I know it happens and yet I still fall into the trap, sometimes.
Mana Tea is something I came to only recently. I preferred the idea of SotC because active regen combined with Rising Mist and ATotM… but as of 9.0 it just hasn’t worked, and there are certain fights (Sun King) where it’s outright useless.
Chi-Ji
I wanted to love him… but he just doesn’t have enough presence. If he was a 1 minute cooldown he’d be such a no-brainer, but on 3 minutes I’m just left wishing for RJW. Yes, I had more mana with Chi-Ji, but I also did less healing by a mile 
Haste
Interesting thought. I remember when there was a brief rush for haste in 8.3, but that got nerfed before I could capitalise on it. Still, it was hectic and fun stacking as much as I possibly could for a few weeks
I think my fear with haste is that it basically burns me out faster without giving me more-per-heal. If I can’t get enough to significantly drop RSK CD, then it just feels like it’s condensing what little healing stamina I have into an even tighter window.
Wrap up and Opinion
Again, thanks for a well thought out reply. I will give it some consideration
I will say though… if MW requires this fine-tuning of talents and stats just to draw level, then it isn’t in a happy place. If there are very wrong talent choices (SotC), then the right choices should be baseline and 3 different choices offered.
I’m not a turret healer, but I’m certainly sympathetic to those who prefer to be. If it is now vital to use Rising Mist and be up in melee with added mechanics and movement, then we should probably be given more damage output in general to encourage and reward this. Right now, we’re pretty poor in that department, and it’s disappointing to be behind a resto shaman on dps while they’re stood back in a safer spot, moving less, and throwing out interrupts.
On the whole, if MW is to be balanced around melee (which I’m ok with!), I want to be optimised for it. I want to be high on the healer-dps chart. I want my interrupt back. I want my defensive back to its old strength and cooldown. If I’m up here in the splash zones, I need to be tanky.
But the overall fix for a lot of this, indeed, better mana efficiency. By doing that, we avoid the need to say “this is the way, the one way, the only way”. It would let us choose talents and play style to our preferences, not to a script. I can see why so many monks would like it.
While it does seem possible to work around our mana efficiency, my one question is; why should we have to, when nobody else does?
You taked “Innervate” on this fight.
Look at the priest and compare. He has worse gir. He died 1 time, but still heal more than you. Heal more - but has less parse % than you.
I’m done, I don’t have time to continue this pointless discussion with you. Glad for if you like current state of MW in mythic raid, but mythic raid is not all content and you are not the majority.