The incoming sigil, trinket and set bonuses are huge dps increases for rets and hand of reck has given them a solid 1000dps increase in TOGC gear.
meaning that in the next phase warriors will be the worst dps spec “Arms” and second worst “Fury”, excluding meme specs.
Ferals are also gonna struggle “potentially ?” but has more utility and useability than we do as an off tank + main dps choice.
It is absolutely infuriating constantly listening to people utter stuff about “warrior scaling blah blah” when they have no clue how late it comes, as in 10 weeks roughly into ICC when they have all the gear and a shadowmourne, they can be a solid nr 4 ish on the dps leaderboard… With a freaking legendary weapon.
Warriors is gonna be what rets were before this buff in the next patch, without any of the utility, without any of the respecability or nothing else. Their best DPS spec being solidly the nr 1-2 worst (outside of arms) and while on some fights ret and warrior will be somewhat close, warriors have nothing in comparison to a paladin in utility and more importantly they get demons and undeads back, hell even humanoids, which all adds an insane amount of dps. Warrior dps also relies a lot of orc racial and 2x axe bis for extra added dps vs none orc alternative.
Just a bit of clarification to think about for all the “warrior scale copium”.
I have started playing my ret again and it feels solid, only thing now is that i have to use my mana regen spell on cd or ill go oom, not that its a negative effect. Its there for a reason
It is crazy that in one forum post i catch not 1 but 2 people completely unable to read ?
Where am i saying that it needs buffing, read the god damn title. It is clarifying that people talking about warrior scaling has no clue what they are talking about and they should stop running their unsuported opinions everywhere.
Where did i ask for that or say that they should, i am clarifying for clueless individuals who keep claiming they are fine and they will “scale” in the next phases ?
Yet it already happened with rets, so it is a weird comment, cause rets wasnt on average a lot more than 500 dps behind warrs and ferals, when they got a buff. Plus this is full bis, rets need essentially a couple things from TOGC to get to that extreme bump in performance, where as warriors need full bis as all the items are scaling them slowly.
It warms my heart seeing warriors moan about being trash, when i remember in classic i got alot of hate from those same warriors for playing shadowpriest. Oh the tables have turned. You deserve this
The difference between fury and ret is that ret never scaled. The T10 2-set copium was always a meme, pretty much every T10 bonus is crazy and ret simply lacks the absurd arp scaling of pure phys dps like fury and combat.
Warriors have the best scaling with gear out of all specs and classes, surpassing even Fire Mage in this regard.
After obtaining the right item pieces, Warrior will ascend to Godhood
Unlike some classes, Warriors can cover 2 raid roles.
Warriors have place in one of the best 2v2 comps (many even consider Hpally/Warrior to be the best overall 2v2 comp).
Warriors have place in one of the best 3v3 comps (many even consider Thunder Cleave to be the best overall 3v3 comp).
Unlike most classes, Warriors have access to a legendary weapon strong enough to completely mess dps ladders and arena ladders
Asking for buffs for a Warrior is rather greedy. Don’t take me wrong, I think that Ret didn’t need the buff as well, but Blizzard is Blizzard. At least we, the players, should be reasonable.
I think this is a bit overly dramatic, as a Warrior main. My DPS numbers in Ulduar are already trending towards me being one of the upper performers in my raid for the overall in Ulduar (compared to Naxx where I was near or at the bottom), I’m not expecting Warrior to scale to be the best dps in the game like some, but Warrior will be more than fine in T9.
Ret was great in ICC, I have plenty of screenshots from the old days where our Ret Paladin was putting out serious numbers. Ret is gonna be extra great in ICC with these buffs.
I provide you with evidence that you are wrong and your answer is to double down and start talking more BS ?
Best scaling, being only a little bit better than a couple others as seen on the ulduar %inc and yes they did scale worse than fire mage here too. They are also one of the classes with the worst set bonuses giving them nothing.
2.Ret and feral can as well, Ret giving the benefit of better overall specs and feral giving you a better dps alternative when off tanking, as they can go cat for far better extra dps than a prot warr. Dk is kinda the same but they have 2 a tier dps specs soo and they scale as a tank as well.
also you forget the class in question compared with warr, brings the two best specs in the game on the side and their now equal dps spec with loads more utility ?
3 and 4. i love how you bring up pvp, it is litterally so dead that they had to address and remake the rating system cause no one is playing it. There are less warriors in top 100 than several other classes as well so they arent anything special. Stop the ridiculous arguments like pvp ever freaking mattered in this version of the game.
5.Again as i pointed out that legendary isnt gonna make em nr 1 dps nr 3-4 most likely, i know you dont know what you are talking about and just watch 14 year old pvp videos and expect it to replicate actual classic numbers. Again PvP like it matters ???
I didnt ask for a buff, i am stating why people like you, who talk out their rearend needs to stop cause you dont know what you are talking about. As i am showcasing none of what you say is accurate about warr scaling and they have been dead last for 2 phases now, while your best argument is they are brought in a few arena comps, an aspect of the game no one plays. Meanwhile mind you this is for arms, not fury, that is the main pve spec in discussion and is not played in PvP at all…
Now that they did touch Rets and not warriors the reasonable players can see and argue, that the least brough class in the game needs help and maybe they shouldnt nerf such classes ways of gaining dps when they were working as intended, so they further cant compete. Again warr has nothing to contribute as utility that is unique and needed.
Seems like you didnt play tbc either then, weird are you a “wrath baby” 2.0 ?
Why are you here on your retail character and asking questions that wasnt talking points?
So you playing with very mediocre players is a good thing to base it off ?
The warcraftlogs shows you are completely wrong in what you are saying and without cheesing or cleave they have no good places and are still rock bottom with rets and ferals.
I did accurately give you t9 where we can sim it doesnt get much better, cause warriors get no good tiersets or trinkets there. Meanwhile a lot of casters and other classes gets massive benefits from ashen verdict etc.
You’re completely missing the point, Warrior is in a completely different universe in Ulduar compared to Naxx. in Naxx Fury was just bad, it was so far behind it was laughable, in Ulduar Fury is decent and if you removed Hodir as the big swing factor due to campfires for ranged, the overall class balance in Ulduar isn’t that bad.
Don’t talk to me about sims because sims are not and have not ever been an accurate representation of actual dps in an actual raid. Not in classic, not in retail, not ever. What sims are good for is helping you optimise your gear.
Like I said, you’re being overly dramatic and the basis of your fears for T9 are scuffed sims and dps numbers 5 weeks into T8. Warrior was only truly bad in T7 going into T8 with that Naxx gear.
Death’s Choice is not a good trinket? It’s BIS until Ruby Sanctum releases. You also get the BIS cloak for rest of expansion, some 258 weapons with perfect itemisation and while the T9 bonuses aren’t exactly huge, neither were the T7 or T8 ones, the set is a huge dps increase over T8.
Don’t be acting like T9 isn’t a large increase in dps, it is. My quickly thrown together set for Orc Fury in T9 is coming up with 11204dps with BS/Engi profs, even Undead is around 11050. So you’ve not really used the sim properly have you?
Edit : So Wowsim was using suboptimal spec/glyphs and ability priority which corrected bumps that up to 11320dps on the sim. But for clarification, never use sims to compare dps between classes, it’s only for gear optimisation.
It has, in naxx it was 2% off and after the deep wounds changes it is extremely good showcasing.
This is just " i dont want to argue with facts ", cause the sims showcase immaculate precision in the prediction of class performances.
If you remove hodir are you also removing thorim for casters or algalon, overall there are loads of small swings here and there, i focus on the lower ones however and i dont care that it is “better” or worse, i care about the inaccuracy of people saying TOGC warr op cause scaling, that is factually incorrect.
And your argument is “trust me bro, i know”. That is a laughably less accurate way to argue.
Deaths choice is not BIS until ruby sanctum, in fact it isnt even better than mjolnir. But yeah i mean ofc you would be wrong about this like the rest, but go ahead and sim it compared to deathbringers will as well. Point is that it is far better for others than us, same way that Mjolnir was far better for us than a lot of others. Thats why we “dont even get a good trinket”. We get gear upgrades, thats it.
You have no way of knowing what length fight i choose. For all we know your settings can further bump ret to 12k, it wont change the statement i made. Share it here then i can see what you did to reference.
Ret gains more scaling from TOGC than warrior, from gear undead/demon and more. Using the argument of “WARRIOR SCALING” especially in regards to TOGC is stupid.
Keep to the topic or find another place to talk about irrelevant points.