As Zagkush said above, “Exactly this right here.”
It took me some time to realize that self-care isn’t only taking a shower, staying at home watching a movie and drinking a hot beverage when I feel bad, but the difficult tasks. I wish I had realized this much earlier on, but when you’re so deep in it, it’s difficult to face these challenges, or even see any sort of solutions. To put it short, things became more bearable once I started doing the difficult tasks, and I can literally promise anyone else who deals with these things that it’ll get easier too. But that requires you to make the first step, regardless of how hard it’ll feel.
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Do grey areas even exist for you? Where do those people stand who have considered they could try RP but haven’t yet made decision on whether they do it or not and they want to see how it works? Let’s say for having anxiety about how they are being treated (will they be labeled as creeps for looking at your way or will people let them learn and be nice towards them while they do).
Also, it doesn’t require OOCer to watch you RP. Someone (myself included actually for once) RP a more shady/spy-like character and watch you RP while being IC, and that would be completely fine considering it’s just doing what your char is doing. Depending on the person RPing they could let you know OOCly (to appear decent/moral/whatever you want to hear/whatever will save their egos from being labeled negatively) or they might want to do it “properly” and not let you know so you won’t be able to adjust your char’s emotes accordingly with that OOC knowledge unless you find out their presence through IC.
It doesn’t require government agency or criminally inclined people to watch or to be watched either. As they used to teach when I was young, never upload/do anything online you wouldn’t consider showing to the whole world, because the risk exists and you can’t control how other people use the internet. And people can drag your name through dirt even if you didn’t do something, you can always be staged for your actions superficially looking like that. Just like people are crusading against all OOCers because some OOCers are unhealthy for RP community. Not to mention slightly different ways people interpret an OOCer as shown in this thread.
Agreed there. It’s important to know when you should face those challenges for your own good and when it’s okay to slow down and say “I’m over-excerting myself now”. And anyone who wants to assume that saying “I struggle with social anxiety” means that they want sympathy or use that as an excuse to cuddle up in their own shell should just grow up. Sometimes all it means is “please understand that I need more time to include myself in this social activity”/“need time to recharge from this situation”. Not all people have patience for it but appreciate those who do.
No, this too is an excuse from those who keep saying “Oh, I will do it but…. no… not just yet.” I used to say that a lot in my younger years, then a few years ago I dived head long, never took “breaks” and I a lot better now than I ever was, if you hesitate, you are just wasting time then years go by and you are the exact same.
Edit: This will be my Last post of the night, I bid you farewell.
Are you saying “I’m right, you’re wrong” there? If no mutual understanding can’t be reached, there’s little point to continue trying to make our points to each other.
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No, Just trying for people who also have social anxiety, to not make excuses that wont help at all, I know you and our undead night elf poster dobt want understand this, but every body else might want to.
Edit: I Just happen to pick quotes from your posts to make my point.
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Still waiting for the day OOCers filling up the AH like they say they do actually matters for RP
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Then they fall into the first category. It´s not nearly as nuanced as you say.
All they need to is throw in a whisper and I can guarantee that most serious roleplayers will be happy to help. As others have said, it´s better to do the difficult thing and in this case, open communication with RPers you are watching.
For one, they will feel better than if some low level without TRP was just standing there behind a tree (or in the open, which happens most of the time) and you end up in contact with RPers instead of watching them and being anxious about how they see you.
Then it´s part of RP. I really don´t understand why this is so difficult for you to understand. Obviously other RPers watch my roleplay, it would be impossible for them not to given that RP is about interracting with others, which automatically means they see what you are doing (unless your RP is watching random characters who you have no connection with, not letting them know you are watching…more power to you, I guess?).
But that´s in no way the same as someone coming to this server with the intention to get entertainment out of what we do without ever contributing to that entertainment. It´s like if random people would be able to zone in to any raid in the game, stand in the boss room and just watch raiders raid. They wouldn´t influence HP of the boss, they wouldn´t be in the raid group, they would be unkillable, they would just watch. And if you asked them whether they are a raider or want to raid, their answer would be: “No, I just like watching people raid.”
Why exactly should I feel happy with the fact that some people come here to creep on me and my guildmates while we are doing something we like in our free time and why should I want more of these people to come to this server?
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That’s the ideal I bet all of us want to have, however sometimes ideal =/= reality. Not to mention people can be rude/bullies/abusive/trolls whether they’re roleplayers or not. It’s just more common to associate these types with OOCers because it’s very rare for such people to contribute to serious RP not to mention pass as serious roleplayer.
But definitely agree on encouraging people to RP regardless of anxiety. As long as that encouraging doesn’t become pushing them to the point it’s just counterproductive.
Perhaps I ask these questions to understand your arguments thoroughly, leaves less room for misinterpretation. Again, the point you’re making is how it usually works and it’s how I ideally like people to handle it too. Doesn’t mean absolutely every single person that pays the sub will have decency to do the same.
They could go watch people raid on Youtube/Twitch or whereever people watch gaming videos nowadays. But unlike in raids where boss HP etc scales by the group size, on this server does it make our RP practically harder to have OOCers? Again, I agree that there should be less OOCers if they have no intention to RP or are there just to systematically interfere with RP but I don’t agree that all of them should be gone from the server, as they’re helpful to have around during those times you want to do harder game content for mogs, mounts etc. without constantly hopping between servers.
If they’re just PvE’ers with any decency, they most likely don’t care about the RP around them and therefore it’s not creeping on you or anyone else. But then how I interpret creeping is an act of systematic stalking and following someone to most isolated places for no reason instead of being present in public space and pointing one’s eyes another person’s way whether they’d actually be watching the other or not.
Invalidating people who have it worse than we do by saying they’re just using excuses doesn’t demonstrate boarder understanding than your own point of view. Actually, you just project your own qualities on others instead of acknowledging that not everyone’s personality is an extension to yours, or that everyone’s struggles with social anxiety are the same. However at this point I feel it’s for the best we agree to disagree as the more we continue arguing about this the more we are derailing this thread. Even while it started from discussing about complexities related to why some OOCers haven’t started roleplaying (or rather what I’ve heard them saying, and at least one of them is a person whose honesty I can trust).
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Reading through your post that seems to be the only argument have in favor of believing that OOCers are okay to be around on a RP server. And I can tell you, with 100% certainty, that it is wrong. Gameplay skills actually do not atrophy just because you roleplay. In fact I know some serious content-heads who also roleplay and do their content exclusively with other roleplayers or through cross-realm functionality.
There are simply 0 reasons to keep OOCers around on the one and only RP server left. Even if they do not actively disrupt RP, they attract and tolerate those who do. Every pure OOCer on the server makes this a tiny bit worse place for RP. For the sake of the people for whom this server was originally intended for it is best for all OOCers to just 
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These complexities are just a whataboutism to use a niche group to justify all OOCers. You’ve been moving the goalposts with basically every post you make.
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And people who watch RP could watch machinima, movies, read books and so on.
I could certainly feel better if random people levelling in the world wouldn´t come to us, type “lol” and then leave.
You need to be part of a guild to take part in harder content, unless you are talking about PUGs (in which case it doesn´t matter what server you´re on). Even then, I would argue that having character for raiding on some of big servers, like Tarren Mill, is far more beneficial than trying to do that content on non-RP character on AD.
That´s not what the discussion is about, so don´t try to switch to “but most OOCers don´t care about that” argument. This is the group we have been discussing:
And I am not going to search for foreign language thesaurus to find perfect word for “continuously coming to watch people doing something in their free time while contributing nothing to that activity while being detrimental to their immersion”, so I don´t really care what your definition of “creep” is.
Stop trying to derail the discussion by including other groups into the discussion while also trying to get hung up on my choice of words as a means to disprove my argument.
Do they only watch OOCly with no intention to RP? Then they don´t bring anything to this server and should not be here.
This will be my last piece of advice for everyone else watching.
Although personalities vary from person to person, one thing we share in common, and the one thing we all need to get over anxiety, is willpower, some have more, some have less, and some have none at all.
Those with greater willpower may want to just dive right in.
The ones with less, take medium to small steps, but instead of right out stoping, slow down instead and keep going to the destination.
Those with no willpower at all… Get out.
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That’s horrible tbf but did make me think a little further on people that I knew once upon a time where I too thought the same horrible way. But I’ve come to understand now that some people are so defeated by life that they have no will power and can’t make first steps without help and in the end it isn’t their fault all this crap in life has come their way and literally defeated them. Some people just need help for that first step because events have left them with no will power. It isn’t their fault in the end. And no i’m not talking about laziness or “waaah i cba”. I’m talking about genuinely hurt, defeated people. But going on your logic they should just get out?
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Dont confuse harsh with horrible.
If they have indeed o willpower, they are Beyond help.
If they have some left then they should move forward, with help or not, they are the ones who must make the jorney, not others,.
Again, if they have no willpower, then yes, these people Just want pity nothing else and Sorry but if are that pathetic then get out.
You’re wasting your time, they’re just trying to derail / get some replies. There is not even a drop of real sentiment there
This lasted about as long as expected
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No, i’m just genuinely trying to understand such a bad view. Just because one can get over something doesn’t mean they should be able to say everybody else “wants pity” and are “pathetic”. There’s a huge lack of how mental health works there and it’s saddening.
Gonna say this before this thread gets locked because of derailment as well:
OOCers need to 
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Agreed, or they are just not Reading posts at all, but I say the former.
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To comment on the lastest messages above, people should be allowed to express their opinions and reason them without it being instantly labeled as “derailing”. If this thread however is only about people wanting support for the OP’s view instead of expressing different views, fine.
Also, Zagkush, Kruule and Mjej are equally accountable for “derailing” as you accuse Vaxir to be. Attacking his/her online footprint or mistakes from years back doesn’t prove your points right but only makes you look condescending. I appreciate Vaxir however showing initiative to genuinely trying to understand Zagkush’s harsh point of view regardless of whatever has happened in the past!
Accuse me of derailing if you like, probably I’m not being any worse than you.
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Yeah
Try weeks
Then make a thread where you and they can speak to your heart’s content
Didn’t ask
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