Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave!

…With a box of scraps!

Dragons live in caves.

Where are my dragon caves, Blizz?! :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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Well no kidding, they couldn’t find their way home to their towering city. Now they can!

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It’s dumb to present dragons as humanoid beings that live in sprawling cities with roads and shops. It’s the worst interpretation of a subject the art team has ever produced for WoW.

This:
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Is a thousand times better interpretation of a mysterious, seclusive, animal that’s aligned with nature than this is:
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You can hear a blue whale’s heartbeat from over 2 miles away. Blue whales weigh an average of between 130,000 and 150,000kg, with their hearts weighing roughly 180kg.

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Blizzard: ThEse r DraGonz! Srzly! DoN’t l00k liek It?! SoemTiMeS theY ChaNge fOrm! But MoStly NOt…

Like Her?

Blizzard: Noooooooo. ThaT’s a diSguaisE! REal DwaGons ChaNge fOrmz cuZ IdenTiti. VISAGE!!!

:weary:

(yeah I’m having my moody grumblings about dragons in Dragonflight. I just need to vent.)

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You do know dragons aren’t real, right?

And that this is Blizzard’s lore, right?

You understand this is a video game, right?

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This is a whelping daycare:

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Cuz dragon mom has an 8-16 job, dad’s out drinking again, and someone has to look after the kids, am I right? :melting_face:

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Sounds like you need to visit a local mental health profession.

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Jito: Mom, can I have that cool dragon?! Please? Pleaaaaase??

Mom: No Jito, we already have dragon at home.

Dragon at home:
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Love the rant :rofl: but tbh Shade of Erannikus lives in a temple, not a cave, otherwise I kinda agree with the screeching. This is why I find the Drakonid soldiers more interesting than Mommystrazsa or Dumbion’s any kind of performance.

This is gold… :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

Actually, I buy into the fantasy that the dragons in the Dragon Isles could build fantastical cities, make statues, etc. However they weren’t the only ones there. The Maiden who gives you those challenges, Tyr and all his buddies, the stone boys and potentially any non-dragon who happened to end up on the island before 10,000 years ago when the shield got switched off and on again likely all helped. The leadership was the smartest supposedly. I doubt that only five dragons got made from proto-drake to dragon. That many others were able to become one too. We’re flying on proto-drakes not dragons btw. I went with the green version that one fits with my main the best.

As for Onyxia, her father didn’t know where home was anymore. She wouldn’t have known that the human form was called a visage. Do you really think that after the events of 10,000 years ago with her father that ANY other dragon would have entrusted her with small amount of knowledge and memories they did have about the dragons of the world. It depends really on how much her father told her…

Valdrakken, the Azure Archives, the Obsidian Citadel, the Ruby Lifepools, the Shady Sanctuary and the Temporal Conflux, not to mention Alget’ar are some fancy caves… :eyes:

True, what I think is: the incarnates should’ve been aspects as well, but because they didn’t succumb to the titans, they went rogue. Like Golganneth blessed Hodir (snow and ice) and Thorim (thunder and storms) which is the same as the raging thunder chicken and one of the other incarnates that gets bailed out. Also Nozdu said as well that the incarnates didn’t embrace the “gift” of the titans as the aspects.

BUT I MIGHT BE WRONG! I’m just a casual peasant who tries to create a story :rofl:

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To say nothing of the Nexus and Wyrmrest Temple from Wrath.

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I’ve always thought the whole visage and humanized habits were due to titans “upgrading” proto dragons, hence civilising them and teaching them how to live… in a titan, humanized fashion. Cause if you look at it, primalists do live in caves indeed. It could be that for the time they haven’t been able to go back to the dragon isles, they’ve gone back to their “feral” habits a bit more.

So, a dragon that wants to infiltrate in secrecy and needs to stay disguised for her plan to work has to go:
“HeLlO LoOk At My HoRns! mY hOrNs aRe aMazing! GiVe it A LiCk! AnD EyEs! I aM A bLaCk dRaGoN bTw!”

Really?

Eranikus is in a temple not a cave, onyxias brothers liar is a huge laboratorium made of stone, the cavern of time are an unnatural space made of sand and stars… not really a cave. Onyxia used what was there, and it seems like black dragon need a certain atmosphere for their eggs… like lava and really hot. Something not naturally found in stormwind. On the island you see how the black flights part looks, volcanic and lava.

Lets throw in wyrmruh temple and nexus just for the fun of it. Really nice dragon caves in wrath right?

Well, see… that’s what happens if Titans meddle with Dragons. I think you should join the Primalists. Proto-Dragons aren’t living in cities.

That’s taking it a bit too literal.

The point is that dragon fantasy has some core traits that define it, because it’s rooted in folklore, legends, and myths of old age.
Some villager would go missing on a journey and people would say it was the dragon that took them.
A fire would erupt in the nearby forest. A dragon!
Rumblings could be heard from the faraway mountains. The dragon!
A huge cavern would be discovered. What creature could possibly live there? A dragon!

Dragons are giant lizards with wings, and they spew fire. They are an old and intelligent race of animals that mostly live alone in secluded areas like caves, abandoned mines, old castles, or deep parts of forests. They have an affinity for gold and treasure and are known to wield magic and possess secret knowledge.
They hide from men, so people rarely see them, except for the traces they leave behind.

A large cave, abandoned mine, old castle, or hidden area of the forest, is all the same. It’s supposed to represent a nest. Like birds who build their nests atop the trees, hidden in the branches and safe from predators, so do dragons build their nests in areas that are supposed to keep them and their eggs secret and safe.

That’s the fantasy. It’s a fantasy we still revel in today, in real life:
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And Blizzard, to their credit, has largely stuck to that fantasy in WoW throughout the years.

In Vanilla, the first dragons you come across in WoW are near Grim Batol. You aren’t really sure what the area is, and it seems closed off and dangerous, but there are a few small dragons there.
Or you see a small cave in the Swamp of Sorrows with some dragon whelps near it. There’s someone inside the cave. It’s not a dragon, but it kind of looks like if a dragon had taken another form…
Blizzard teases the big reveal throughout the zones and the leveling until you eventually get the big moment. Eranikus. Onyxia. Azuregos. You find them. Hidden, in a way.

Richard A. Knaak is the author Blizzard hires to do their initial world-building for Warcraft, and who is mainly responsible for the initial dragon lore, conveyed in the novels Day of the Dragon and The War of the Ancients trilogy.
And he doesn’t really deviate from the classic dragon fantasy. Dragons are mysterious beings. They’re super powerful, intelligent, and wise beyond mortal understanding. The red dragon korialstrasz takes the humanoid form of Krassus to interact with the mortal races without revealing his true nature. Most dragons have no interest in mortal affairs.

Throughout Vanilla, TBC, WotLK, and Cata, Blizzard uses dragons quite a bit, but they still maintain the classic representation of them.
Even when it’s all about the dragons in Cataclysm, it’s still rooted in a story about a big evil black dragon that’s been hiding in underground caverns for many years, and now he’s come out of hiding to spew fire. You won’t see him often, but when he appears he lays waste to everything. He’s a dragon in his presentation. The other dragons are dragons. Big, giant lizards with wings that fight each other in the sky with fire and magic. Not for human reasons, but for their own race’s territorial feuds. Like animals.

Dragonflight doesn’t really do much of any of that. The dragons are more often portrayed as humans living in a fancy human world with human interactions and human commodities. They ally with other human races and interact with them as if they are their equal.
Sometimes they shift form and appear as dragons, but it tends to be for show. A short moment where they fly or fight, before they shift back into their default humanoid form.
And mostly there are no dragons. There are drakonid and wyrmkin. Arms and legs, no wings, wields weapons, and talks and behaves like humans.

And it feels jarring and wrong.
When Blizzard have spent the past 27 years since Warcraft II showing us dragons in one way, it appears illogical that they would suddenly appear and behave completely different.
Instead of making an expansion that’s based around the way dragons have always been presented, it feels as if Blizzard instead wanted an expansion that looked like Pandaria, so they made that and shoehorned dragons into that.

If you look at Coldarra, then it’s off to the side of the map. It’s secluded and hidden amongst the mountains.

Blizzard are pretty good at doing that throughout WotLK. For example:
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That’s not a litteral cave. But the artist still manages to convey this secluded area amongst the trees, a hidden oasis of lush forest in a harsh icy climate.

Or this:
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That’s not a literal cave either. But the mountains surrounding the sand still gives off the vibe that this is a place of secrecy.

That’s not to say that Wyrmrest Temple isn’t a big prominent tower that stands out. But it still gives off the vibe that this is a place in the middle of Antarctica. The game world is obviously sized for gameplay purposes, but lore-wise Dragonblight conveys the sense of endless inland ice and snow. It takes forever to get anywhere, let alone see anything except snow and ice. So the dragons use it, because it’s secluded from all else, like Titan facilities are, because Titans are also all about secrecy.

None of the areas in Dragonflight gives off that vibe. Muh immersion. :grimacing:

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Azeroth dragons are not that way. This are order touched dragon with intelligence. They visages to operate titan facilities and communication. You are looking for proto drakes. This is the fantasy you are describing. Well they are in the game and behave like you said.

You can see it like neanthertals = protodrakes - mordern human = dragons of the flights

In Azeroth this behavior are proto drakes. Dragons are a race with defined culture and intelligence. Like other culture-developing races.

The flights dragons have nothing to do (anymore) with the drakes of the fantasy you are describing. Maybe the reason why they are called abominations by the primalist which are protodrakes that match your description.

This thread gave me aids, i dont understand nothing. What is a tony stark and what did he build in cave??? And what have dragons build on cave? Wtf i not understanding