Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave!

Do tell, Malygos was the most inteligent among them, yet even he struggled with the words; only Alexstrasza were able to speak in coherent sentences - thats why she became the Queen

And yet Maligos and his flight build libraries, nexuses and catalogued ley lines, magic, history and so on. Nothing a primitive race would do. This is an advanced civilisation

I ment as a proto dragon
After the titan boost it was what you said
Ancient Alien theory guy would love this
:alien: + :lizard: = :dragon:

No.

Wise artist at Blizzard once said the following:

Art must be true to lore, as lore must be true to art.

Blizzard are being disingenuous when they present dragons in one way for 27 years only to suddenly flip-flop, do a 180, and present them in an entirely different way.

If Blizzard wants to do that, then they have to explain the transition in appearance and behavior. But they don’t do that.

If the dragons used to live on The Dragon Isles in Titan cities with roads, shops, commodities, egg-hatching facilities, academies, wearing human forms to express their self-identity, and otherwise doing the work of the Titans, then Blizzard needs to explain why they change so dramatically when they leave The Dragon Isles.
Most dragons you come across in WoW are animals. Intelligent, magic-wielding, flesh-eating, and fire-spewing animals, but animals nonetheless. Because that’s what dragons are.
You can’t just pretend that isn’t what they are because you now suddenly have a major city hub that needs a tavern, bank, stable, and other facilities that the dragons need to accommodate.

I get that Blizzard can write a lot of it off on the notion that Warcraft is also whimsical and light-hearted, so that’s why there’s a whelping daycare and The Ruby Feast and an academy for dragons. Herp derp it’s fun!

But where I get grumpy is when Blizzard goes out of their way to pretend the past 27 years of dragon lore and presentation doesn’t exist, because now it’s 2023 and Blizzard wants to be modern and present a modern expansion in a modern look, so dragons need to get out of the medieval age and get a fresh new look.

No.

No.

No. No. No!

It’s not very modern to present Alexstrasza as this female lizard who’s primary function is to stay in a cave, mate with her chosen consorts, and lay a bunch of eggs for her flight.
But that is part of who she is. Her flight is her clutch.
I realize that Blizzard wants to make her a cool-looking woman who’s brave and compassionate, independent and powerful. But they can’t pretend that’s all she is.

I get that Blizzard likes the idea of the Ruby Dragonshrine as this high-tech, egg-hatching laboratory facility. Because it’s convenient. It’s convenient, because then Blizzard avoids having to tell the story about how the female dragons get shagged by the bigger and more imposing male dragons.

But that’s how it is.

Or that’s how it should be.

1 Like

Also, Blizzard:
“My team believes that continuity exists to enhance a story, not to tie the hands of creators!”
:roll_eyes:

Sorry, it was a tongue-in-cheek play on words I suppose. I try to go for curious thread titles.
It’s this scene:

My tldr is basically that Blizzard used to make many caves in WoW, and they would often put dragons inside them.
Now Blizzard makes a dragon expansion, but there are no caves, let alone any dragons inside them.

What gives?

1 Like

Ah ty, now i can understand. Ty i not native english <3

1 Like

Iron Man, love, Iron Man

looks are retconned lore to the core Am I a joke to you? :sob:

retconned…

you can cry and stay in the past or move on with the rest.
But srsly I cannot remember a huge retcon to the aspect story line and no contradiction. We got new additional lore implying stuff like Neltharion wasnt immidiatly corrupted by the whisper from the start, but it only started the moment he accepted their power. New lore, no contradiction… Doesnt change the events that occured.

Heh. I get that Blizzard retcons here and there, and I think it’s fair that the lore and story is a little bit elastic, so Blizzard can actually tell the stories they want to tell, without some random lore sentence on the back of a 20 year old manual, written by some marketing guy, preventing them from doing so.
So some artistic freedom is fair.

But I turn into an old grumpy 35 year old man when I feel that Blizzard takes something that’s very iconic and beloved in the franchise – like Arthas or dragons – and don’t pay heed to its heritage when using it, foregoing that in favor of reimagining it and twisting it into something new, yet still having the audacity to slap the name on the top of the box, making people think it’s the same they get when it really isn’t, just because it makes $$$.

Respect the source material!

1 Like

But Azeroths dragon where always this way. The books mentioning the dragon flights in any shape or form never made a picture of them being some flying primitive lizards. They are a culture creating race in this universe. Like Kentarro mentioned:

Even in the video of this xpac you see it. Primitive race before Tyr gifted them

???

1 Like

Poor Jito. I feel your pain. Arguing with them won’t help you. Talk to me. I understd exactly what you mean.

So far this topic is:

Activision replaces a white flag on the wall with a red one, says the white flag was always red.
Jito: The white flag was the original flag and was better
People: There never was a white flag.
Jito: Yes there was, it was the original one and was there because they hung it there to contrast with the wall.
People: The wall never contrasted with a flag because it’s red, just like the flag.
Jito: I get them hanging up different flags over time but you can’t just change an existing flag and tell us to ignore it.
People: They didn’t it was red. You just saw white but it was red. The wall is red. You’re confused

I know the flag was white. The red flag is ugly. They ruined the wall.

1 Like

No.

The pictures don’t lie.

Onyxia was a super intelligent black dragon who schemed and infiltrated the Human kingdom of Stormwind under the disguise of Lady Prestor, for her own nefarious purposes. But she was also a dragon. A giant lizard animal that lived in a cave in a swamp, protecting her own clutch of eggs. She could fly and she could spew fire.

Blizzard don’t get to pick and choose.
They don’t get to say that dragons are intelligent beings that take human form and mingle amongst the other human races, without also saying that they are also giant lizard animals that live in caves and lay eggs and spew fire.

They are both.

But in Dragonflight Blizzard only wants them to be one thing.

And that is disrespectful to the source material.

We need exact proof of your statement. Else its hearsay. Adn activision is the publisher… you dont really think they would work for their money and do lore decissions…

Are we talking wc 1, 2, 3?
Are we talking well of eternity lore?
What are you basing it on?

Oh boy…
maybe you should research the reason why she was in that cave while her brother was in a stone laboratory and still being a dragon … maybe could it be that black dragon had a bad reputation and needed to hide themself… lets say because of a certain aspect? Maybe because they were all mad from an old god?

:slight_smile:

In The War of the Ancients, Richard A. Knaak describes a moment where the Aspects convene to discuss the demon invasion. And he describes the place as a secret and sacred place to the Aspects. It’s a huge underground cavern, shaped like a dome. It’s always been there, even Neltharion doesn’t know of its origin. It’s so big that it makes even the Aspects appear as ants.

The point being that the dragons have always been described to make use of pre-existing places of secrecy, because it fits well within their own identity. They are drawn to secrecy and know of the secrets of the world.

And with regards to the game, I think one needs to be careful not to interpret the game world as a 1:1 layout of the lore world. Dragonblight is a huge area of inland ice as far as the eye can see. The Wyrmrest temple is as approachable as if it was placed in the middle of Antarctica. It’s not located 2 minutes away from a nearby Walrus town and 3 minutes away from the nearby Human stronghold.
The game world is made to fit the game, but in terms of lore it’s all much bigger. Richard A. Knaak describes the Wetlands in Day of the Dragon as taking multiple days by horse to traverse. That may not be how we experience it in the game, but if you put on those roleplaying goggles, then that’s the fantasy you should immerse yourself into.
Same goes for the rest of Azeroth.

I like your analogy. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

Let’s also not forget that Wyrmrest had no tables, no beds, no daycares, no clutter, no nothing. Wyrmrest was a temple, with MASSIVE open space for the dragons to meet, debate and meditate maybe. They didn’t need or have visages or humanoid shapes. The temple made our characters feel small.

It was tall and massive and believably could function as a roost. Even though it was just there to protect and oversee the dragonshrines nearby. To compare it to Valdrakken which is a city for drakonid and dragonspawn is absurd.

Your point stands that the dragons from old Warcraft - which were inspired by folklore, DnD, warhammer and Tolkien - were replaced with Disney/Pixar dragons to be more family friendly, approachable and relatable. They did this overnight, with no explanation or justification. It fits perfectly because they have done this to the whole world for this expansion. World of Disney has no place for a giant firebreathing monster that’ll roast a whole village just because he doesn’t like how close they built their homes to his lair.

No. They are black dragons and are affiliated with the core of the earth. They are earth-warders. They live in volcanic caverns and mountains. Onyxia does that. Nefarian does that. It’s a trait like the blues are drawn to snow and ice, bronze the sand and desert, and so forth.
It goes back to this animalistic presentation that Blizzard have usually conveyed. They are animals and they live in different territories, because they are different species of a similar race.
The notion that they all live in Valdrakken because it’s Titan stuff is ridiculous when Blizzard have spent 27 years teaching us that the blue live where it’s cold, the bronze live where there’s sand, and so forth.

I show you this and you know it’s the Red Dragonflight, because it’s lush nature:
Imgur

I show you this and you know it’s the Black Dragonflight, because it’s volcanic mountains:
Imgur

It becomes disingenuous when Blizzard says forget about all that and instead presents you with this and says that this is where all the dragons live:
Imgur

That’s Blizzard not staying true to the lore they have previously created and cultivated themselves.

Where is the second but last picture from?