The timer doesn’t “ruin it”.
It just means, because you have waited for the advantage of having 30% haste every so often, compared to someone who doesn’t, you get less score, because they displayed more technical execution than you did.
What is wrong about that?
Nowhere does Torg “kick you out” or deprive you of soul ash once you go “over par” timer. It just means you may or may not get to run the highest levels of Torg.
It’s kind of pointless to argue with some of you.
Because you’re failing to understand what even the problem is.
It’s not about it being a mythic+ timer, a soft timer, a hard timer or a mini timer or whatever else you want to call it.
It’s A TIMER. Designed specifically for the purpose of making you hurry up.
It doesn’t matter if it affects the run or not. It doesn’t matter if it’s an annoyance or not.
What matters is, this mode was supposed to be different and was supposed to be like a big dungeon, that you could explore at your own pace and do what you wanted. And they turned it into a timer thing…
Again… Even though so many people told them not to and it was the reason they didn’t do the soft timer in 9.0. Now they ignored all that and went back to their own way of enforcing things.
But it is still the big dungeon.
You can still take as long as you like and get the soul ash you want.
The only thing that changes is IF you want to go into the higher levels where the rewards are greater, you are expected to display more technical execution prior, one part of which is measured by time taken (but by no means the sole measure thereof).
This is fundementally different to game modes where once the timer expires, you LOSE or get reduced potential rewards outright.
As said, time taken is but one part of the run and the evidence from the PTR suggests that the approach of taking your time and going slowly, but not AFKING for minutes between pulls, is the one to do.
Now if you want to afk between pulls, fine, you can still do that. Nothing kicks you out or robs you of soul ash. But until you can execute runs where you no longer do this, you may not be able to run the higher levels.
I fail to see the problem here.
Most people running torg will not notice a single difference from the new implementation regarding their progress onto higher floors.
Now, for those who will notice a difference, there must be a suggestion of alternative.
Blizzard want to lock the prizes of the higher layers (the new leggo currency, loads more ash) behind the upper layers. They want you to demonstrate some expertise before you can “have at” these layers and their rewards.
This is not unreasoanble, it’s exactly the same principle as needing better gear to run better content to get better gear (or needing to play better despite poor gear). You want better stuff? You must do something to get it.
Now when it comes to Torg there are only so many ways you can measure performance. If we make it a case of simply clearing stuff, then that actually gives no indication of expertise at all, because it would tier the guy who takes 2 hours and 10 bloodlusts to finish a layer in the same bracket as someone who can do it in 20 minutes, when clearly there is an execution difference here.
So how else? Easy. You record how long it takes people to do it, and the quicker they are, the more score they get (this is not the same as failing you if you do not clear in X).
Unless it can be suggested that there is some other way to capture expertise in torg beyond time taken - or why access to higher layers and better rewards should not require some prior demonstration of capacity (when everywhere else in the game does precisely that) I see no other sensible alternative.
If I want to get 226 loot consistently, I need to be good enough to play in the high keys and raids to warrant the invites.
So it follows, if I want the more lucrative soul ash amounts, and the soul embers, which give me even better items, I need to demonstrate better skills and better play, and sadly the most direct way to measure that in to look at how long it takes you to do something.
As said there is no clear other way to do it, that doesn’t “mix up” people whom spend ages wiping or resetting pulls and going super ploddy versus those who make clean pulls, and execute the whole thing more coherently without breaks.
TBH they should just remove ash and embers from torg so the score can be tied to earning torg-unique gear and special mogs etc, that way people whom aren’t interested in trying to execute torg in a progressive fashion no longer need to worry about it.
Lol.
Torghast
Expertise.
Pick one.
Timers just put unnecessary pressure on runs. It’s daft. I know it’s not all about the timer but why did they need to add it at all.
Cosmestics and access to bonus levels that can drop more rewards.
Irrespective of whether RNG is involved or not, the fact remains someone who can acheive a task in 20 minutes to the same or better standard than someone who requires 1 hour to do it, is demonstrating some expertise the other does not have.
You would contend this?
i never said “Torg takes skills” I said blizzard are trying to make access to the higher floors require some demonstration of expertise regarding how one handles Torghast. There is a subtle difference between the two.
Time taken does not equal expertise.
I’ve had runs where it’s taken me 30 minutes to get through layer 8 and I’ve had runs where I get like 1 or 2 powers and can just skip all the floors.
Why not?
I get the “odd variations” of course, due to RNG. The fact remains however that there are still people whom struggle to solo layer 8, or do it in under an hour consistently versus some whom have been soloing it since they dinged 60.
Now we can humour the whole “it’s just RNG” but beyond a point, you need to consider whether indeed player X is getting unlucky every single time and player Y lucky every single time or whether there is actually a difference in the skillset between the two that causes one to exploit the circumstances of their run more effectively than the other one does.
As said, i’m not saying Torg requires a degree, i’m merely saying there is a difference in capacity and execution/play btween someone who consistently clears layer 8 in about an hour, and someone who can do it in 20 minutes or less every time.
We can cry about luck, but if it were luck, you’d see the 20 minute dude occasionally having an hour long run. Yet we don’t.
The “quick” players always tend to be quick, whereas the slow ones are either slow or quick RNG depending. There is a reason for this, and it is down to their individual play.
Most of that is down to gear and class. My druid can just rush to the last boss without even picking any powers at this point.
And yet some people at 200ilevel still can’t manage to solo it.
Of course gear matters, but trying to point at everything except individual play just comes across as pointlessly obscure denial. To be clear, i never said play IS the main factor, it is just one factor. All i’m arguing is that it IS a factor, and blizzard are trying to tap into that factor in particular.
I mean gear, yes, yet I know more than one 190+ ilevel person whom still can;'t do a layer 8 without a group yet I have on 6 different classes been doing layer 8s at ilevels well below that until my gear improved, lowest being at ilevel 159. Am I just super duper lucky every single time irrespective of my class, or maybe I know a “little bit” about how to exploit torghast and what the “rules of engagement” are regarding which kinds of things to prioritise?
This isn’t humblebrag, this isn’t me saying “yo, ma skills”, this is me contending your point that individual play has pretty much zero effect on it, and yet I see consistent patterns across players that you would call “mere luck” rather than acknowledge their play may come into it.
To me that’s just unreasonable.
This was twisting corridors layer 8 last boss. Very skill.
That’s what I did to every mob that run after acquiring the right powers. Fastest twisting corridor layer I’ve done. Pretty much no skill involved, I just had to make sure I had the mob(s) feared before I hit them or that I opened with chastise. Don’t pretend this is some insanely skilled thing to do, I could have stripped all my gear and it would still do the same damage. I could have just had those 2 powers that result in this and have cleared it all by just using fear, holy nova and chastise while naked.
Exceptions do not make the rule.
Again, you’re focusing on something I never said, which is “torghast takes a fair whack of skill”. I never said this.
I said there is a skill difference in the people whom engage which it, which is visible in different performances that consistently arise. You pointing to a single video of a run like that does not exclude that point, because why then, do so many people complain about it still?
It concedes that what you speak of and show, isn’t everyone’s experience.
What i’m saying here isn’t massively contentious I thought. Skill is involved at some level.
To claim otherwise on the basis of a video like that is to claim along the lines of healing a m+ during a necrotic and bursting week being “ez mode, no skill” on the basis of me producing a video of a healer being grouped with 3 233 ilevel dps whom steamroll the entire run and keep themselves cleansed and a tank that self heals.
Yet you know as well as I do, that would be stupid of me to claim on the basis of that one example. Of course skill is involved in the healing role, and the fact that "sometimes* you may get a situation where your skill takes a backseat, that doesn’t change this fact. Well I think that anyway.
It seems you might not agree with me here?
Yeah, such skill by me. I’m pretty much autoattacking the boss to death and he can’t even put a dent to my health unless I stand in aoe. SUCH SKILL.
Sure takes an insane amount of skill here.
Man, I must be really, really skilled at the game.
Speed is taken into consideration whether or not you can access the hidden floors. So yes, there is a timer basically.
I was under the impression they removed that.
You are now scored based on performance after successfully completing a run. At the end of the run, your score will be ranked and you will be awarded with Tower Knowledge, which can be spent at The Box of Many Things to acquire permanent Perks and grow stronger, which will allow you to combat the enemies in Torghast even quicker. Save souls and defeat the Jailer’s forces to become Empowered, allowing you to more effectively crush your foes through a variety of combat and score bonuses. Developers’ note: We want to thank everyone for taking the time to provide feedback on the updates to Torghast. The team has been reading through and iterating the design based on your feedback. A specific change that we’ve made focuses around the common feedback that the Empowered Bar creates a feeling of time pressure that was negatively impacting the playstyle of Torghast. We’ve addressed this by changing the mechanic and we’d love to hear your thoughts after trying out these changes: The Empowered Bar is now more like a “Special” meter than a “Streak” or “On Fire” bar and is filled by performing actions that earn score and no longer decays over time or with deaths. Once you meet a certain threshold on the Empowered Bar, an extra action button appears that you can use to become Empowered. You will remain Empowered for a duration based on the amount of bar that was filled. Empowered provides a number of combat bonuses that can be increased or added at the Box of Many Things. Also, all actions while Empowered contribute to a score bonus at the end of the run.
You had to keep that bar filled up previously to make it to the “hidden” floors, so it was timed because it decayed over time. They removed that, so, I was under the impression that the timed aspect was removed?
They just changed the way it feels. Youre are still judged for your general performance (kill %, speed, etc) inside the floor but the big damage bar now no longer depletes unless you sprint like a madman. The dmg bar caused a direct sense of pressure rather than just having its stuff run in the background.
However to not reach the vault you need be afk on every floor pretty much anyway.
This guide is explains the scoring system if anyone is unclear how it works:-
Again, you are focusing on the idea I said “really skilled” as opposed to what I actually said.
If you can’t even concentrate on the actualities of what I said, then there’s no point continuing here.
There is no skill involved in these clips, it’s purely the torghast powers at play. The powers play torghast for you pretty much. Skill only enters the equation when you start trying to push without having a a lot of powers.