[quote=“Skullfox-argent-dawn, post:120, topic:487901, full:true”]
I am an oldie… Ive played wow for a long while now. And back then we where all oogling at the epic tier sets and weapons and transmogs the Endgame players had.
But again… People were admiring the gear, not the look… People were looking at those end game players for how stacked they were. The appearence was tied to the gear itself. Now it isn’t. Now you can have a full mythic raid tier set and make it look like full greens.
But isn’t this the wrong way of incentivizing? I know ArgenDawn players (as far as I know from playing on the server) enjoy the transmog, the look, the creativity of the appearence, and the lore you make around that look and character… This system is taking that enjoyment and saying “Oh… You enjoy tmog and want to RP? Yeah you better spend weeks and hours here farming first lad”…
Shouldn’t the incentive of end game be… The end game?
This wouldn’t change though? People will still have to go do it… But this way, they won’t be forced to go back in there indefinately or have to miss out on the fun of RP if they don’t enjoy the raid?
The issue is with the replayability of this content and yes, this would be somewhat reduced by OPs suggestion for a SUBSET of the overall raiding population. But, like you said, maybe people will be happier if that’s the case. It will not take away the charm or the pride that is encompassed by the skill of the player who needed to still be skillful enough in whatever the content he was farming. It’s NOT all doom and gloom as you and the MVP made it out to be. This is the type of exaggeration I despise.
You never oogled at those epic Judgement set paladins and their Obsidian edge blades? xD
Rogues and their epic Bloodfang armor and daggers? Didn’t you wanna raid back then to get those epic tier sets and weapons? The game should be like that in my opinion.
I am afraid that with your suggestion. Allot of people might just raid to kill their boss and get their loot once and just ditch their guild and raid team… It makes looting and winning those epic current items trivial yes in my opinion.
So this one is a trciky problem to tackle… But here goes…
You have roleplayers who wanna play the game for RP… But truth is Roleplayers are the minority when it comes to the larger player base… And personally I think its better that Argent dawners and roleplayers actually try playing the game and endgame…
Rather than the wider playerbase loose the reward out of actually killing and looting and winning a boss item apperance…
I don’t think the larger playerbase should adhere to Argent dawn’s wardrobe wishes… Although I perfectly understand it… xD I am there too. But I don’t think it would be healthy for the game in my opinion.
And lastly, I never actually said I wanted this system to come in place. I don’t care about it because I do not even raid. What I wanted to do in this thread was to stop the disgusting twisting of narrative started by the green for some reason. So, all I want is to be rational and sensible. I’m not advocating this to happen straight away; if poeple want it, great. If not, also great. But don’t make it sound like me or OP actually want this to happen, it’s just for discussion. It requires being sensible. Not being crazy.
I erge you to read what I’m writing… Yes I did… Why? Because the loot and the appearence was tied to each other… There was no way of having the Bloodfang appearence without the Bloodfang armor… Back then, appearence was the showcase of completion. Thats how you knew people raided. But as I mentioned, you can be a Mythic raider and transmog yourself in full LFR gear. Do people think less of those players because they aren’t running around in Mythic transmog? Do people see players like Pikaboo in the arena with the rabbit store tmog and all of a sudden discredit him because he is not running the elite PVP set? No of course not…
But again here, this indicates that people are only in guilds and raiding for tmog, why don’t you keep it consistant then? What happens to those players today if they get the tmog? Why are they in your scenario continously raiding and guilding if all they want is tmog and they get it first week, oppossed to in my scenario they will leave instantly?
Again… There is a difference between “trying” and “being forced to”. If they want the appearence they will still have to go in the end game and farm it? They just don’t have to make multiple alts or having to wait on gearing because they want to look a certain way…
This I do find a bit ironic though… You are talking about the “health of the game” but are defending a system that time gates because people would otherwise leave for lack of content, instead of discussing how the game could evolve to get more content to keep these players here… We are artificially forcing people to grinds and chores and thats what you call “a healthy game” because you see numbers… But you don’t seem to care whether those numbers actually enjoy being in the raid or “trying the endgame”
Thank you!.. I feel like multiple times people twist the words as if I’m arguing for Blizzard to swing their wands and suddenly everyone just gets handed every appearence… And instead of treating the thread as what I intended (And even wrote multiple times) a sane discussion where we can present different opinions, people found it easier to jump in, call me lazy, call me hostile etc. etc.
How is apperance not a showcase of completion now? Of course it is still that to Endgame players outside of Argent dawn. Their not all just caring about huge numbers and stats. The transmogs matter to them too and is still a huge part of the reward to them.
Yes this is one of my concerns and the answer to why is because of simple mind set logic…
You are much more likely to commit to a guild and dedicate your self too it. Develop friendships and want your guild to sucseed if you are in it for the long haul…
That would immidietley change as soon as your brain gets the idea ‘‘I just need this to drop once and I’m never setting foot in here again’’ Mentality. Witch in my view this solution of yours would make…
I hate to be the bringer of brutal reality checks… But World of warcraft wasn’t made a MMO with roleplaying as a primary endgame in mind… Roleplayers aren’t being forced to anything and life is actually really easy for them as far as transmog goes…
Any old raid and loot and appearances most of them can solo and attain if they want to. Shadowlands aside that still has Legacy loot.
And i think thats how things should be. I think current raid loot and tier should stay as it is… And feel as rewarding as it still does. When the next expansion comes. Roleplayers can solo and farm their transmog. Or they give raiding a chance for a change…
But changing the game and one of it core rewards just to make your wardrobe easier? Lets face it thats what this is about… I think is a huge diservice to anyone who isn’t a Roleplayer…
This would be a gift and wish come true for Roleplayers for sure. But it would make the reward of looting and winning raid loot a poorer experience to anyone who isn’t an rper in my opinion.
Lets be honest here… the only people this ‘‘timegates’’ against are people who aren’t into it for the endgame… This pretty much only timegates Roleplayers who don’t want to play the game but only rp… I understand that and i get why they would want that.
But it still takes allot of the reward out of winning a loot out from the rest of the playerbase that aren’t rp’ers.
Because you are making it to be, that one excludes the other… Are you not a mythic raider if you don’t have the appearence? Are you less of a mythic raider if 10 people has the appearence? In laymens terms, your argument would be like if a school had a football team… They win a final, but only give out 1 medal, that is a roll of a dice… BUT! if you play another sport too, you don’t get to roll… And if you already have a medal from another final you don’t get to roll either, unless none of your team mates wants the medal. Does that mean everyone that didn’t get a medal didn’t play or win that final? No.
Noone these days looks at transmog in admiration and goes “Wauw! mythic raider!” because people simply has SO many ways of transmogging… You’re arguing from a standpoint where the gear (Like your examples of Bloodfang) is the “only” way you can show off… I would argue that people care a lot more about the item it self, as that actually gives them an advantage to push higher, than the actual appearence… I would even go as far as assuming, if a BiS piece dropped, and you asked the eligable players “Do you want the appearence or the loot?” almost all of them would go for the loot it self.
But mate, you are not answering my question… Why is the mindset different in your scenario? Why are people selfish tmog hunting raiders when it comes to my scenario but in yours they stay for the long haul and create friendships? If the basis of your argument is that they will leave as soon as they get the transmog why won’t those players leave in week 1 if they get that “one loot” in your scenario? That question you seem to avoid every time…
Im sorry. but you don’t answer any of what you quote here… Your argument was that people now are forced to try… Now you’re talking about something else?..
Do you roll for loot because of the item or appearence? Lets be honest, people don’t farm M+ for 3k score to get tmog… People dont go for countless Mythic raids to get tmog…
Are you completely skipping the fact, that currently people who actually want the reward, that NEEDS the reward are losing it to people that just want it for the “warderobe”? How is that not a disservice to anyone who isn’t a roleplayer? How is that more rewarding, that you spend hours trying to get your character geared but keep losing out on gear, because someone wants a blue sword instead of a red?
What?? Before you argued that people only played for cosmetic rewards and even argued that time gating was good, because it kept people comming back… And now you claim that the time gating is only hurting people that don’t like the end game?.. You’re arguing that people don’t play for end game, whilst also claiming that the majority don’t care about cosmetics because they play for the end game it self… Read your message back, you are arguing in both directions currently, and I don’t really know what your opinion is anymore…
One second you say your opinion is X and the next it switches to Y…
Dude this isn’t a football or a basketball game where everyone gets a medal for participating… Even if it was and we gave everybody a medal what value is there in that medal?
Yes I think what your saying excludes the other… I know that people find transmogs and such rewarding. And I know you do too else you wouldn’t be here.
But what you want would take allot of the value out of it…
Oh they definetely would still leave. But it would be way more often and casual to do so and easier to do so with your solution…
Raid leaders would have to deal with ‘‘Wannabe raiders’’ And transmog hunters if your solution became reality wouldn’t they? Youd spend no time in your guild or want it to sucseed. You’d just know… Once that item drops my reason for being here is done.
And you answered to my reply about this and Roleplayers and Argent dawners… I feel like I answered that part very well. Please follow the context between your own answers and my replies too them.
To be honest? I do it for both. But I don’t think the reward for item level increase. And a cool new transmog should be seperated to please your transmog wishes… I understand that you want it easier. But playing the game and raiding is a huge reason to why allot of players do what we do. Outside of the RP sphere.
If your asking me… That should have never been added as an rolling option in my opinion… That people loose raid gear and progression because of a Rp’ers wardrobe desires is yeah xD… Not good. But thats Blizzard trying to meet the RP fanbase on the half way… But still you want more.
I don’t think you understood my example if you AGAIN come to the conclusion “We gave everybody a medal”… Currently as far as I am aware, everyone in the team gets a medal for winning no? So please instead of reading with your feelings and drawing conclusions from something I didn’t write, actually read?
But why isn’t that the case in your scenario? Why do the “wannabe raiders” all of a sudden care in your scenario? If their objective is exactly the same, why are you making them more selfish in my scenario?
I would urge you to do the same. because your reply had nothing to do with what you quoted.
Players do what? There is a big difference between enjoying the game and playing the game, and feeling like its a chore… Thats like saying PVP in Shadowlands was good, because people played… But people only played becuase they HAD to, to not fall behind… If you ask the community, a majority will say the gearing system sucked because they were forced to play…
Are you honestly telling me, they changed the looting system because of tmog reasons? xD And not the fact that people were making groups to funnel gear and cheesing the system? xD
“But you still want more” mate, how many times do I have to tell you my intention of this thread? Are you that much in your feels, that you can’t argue for your case, without giving me intention? xD Really?
Literally no xD this is where we just see things differently… Has nothing to do with my feelings…
You didn’t win the item and the roll? You didn’t win it… Plain and simple… Transmog included. That win goes to the winner and the winner alone.
Because of commitment. You think about it differently. If you think about getting transmog as a first time first get it thing. Thats what your mind is gonna settle in for.
Try explaining to your guild and everybody you just left behind why you aren’t a hole for leaving after months and years in your guild after getting your transmog and still convince everyone your not just a selfish douche.
Compared to a guy who already knew and knows he’d only join the guild after his item just first drop a few weeks in?
I feel like ive stayed pretty much in context here to everything ive stood for and said this entire time…
Your the one trying to argue why we should remove a huge reward feeling out of the game to make your transmog hunting easier.
If you enjoy the game and feel like everything is a chore to do… Are you enjoying the game truly? Is this really the game for you?
I don’t think so… And asking the game to change and for things that everybody else but you enjoys to change accordingly to your desires without thinking about the bigger picture is rather selfish.
1: Yes I am… Unless you have a better logic and reasoning why they added that loot option in other than satisfying transmog hunters I am all ears?
2: Yes you do still want more… Because even with this new rolling option added. That according to you lets transmog runners win items over transmogs instead of raid runners…
You still want welfare transmog for just being there when the boss died without winning the item.
Like you can throw as many word salads and be as fancy and smart about it as you can muster. My view on what your doing wont change. I wont think this is a good angle or approach. No matter how many different sides you try to do same the same thing comes from.
I still think just giving everybody the appearance for being there takes allot of the reward out of it when actually winning a loot.
I am sorry but thats just how I see it… Lets see what the other thinks… Lets make some space for other replies? ><
I didn’t read the entire thread but personally I have been thinking about this too. I just wouldn’t take it quite as far as all items that drop and your char can use you’d get as transmogs. However, I think it would be relatively balanced if when an item drops, there would be two separate rolls for it, one for the actual item and one for just the appearance and you’d only roll for one of the two. That way people who need actual upgrades could still get them and the people that just want the tmog would get a real chance to roll for it even if they’re on a geared main. But it’s not broken since only two people will still get it. Just a thought but I think something most people would be happy to get on board with.
No problem. I am just going to ignore these people from now on who think that it is justifiable to be hyperbolic in their arguments. So hyperbolic that they think it’s fine to outright lie about the intentions of your original post? Then there is no point to continue discussing. Good of you to put your suggestion(s) out there, whatever happens happens. All the best.
Literally yes?.. In what sport, does a team play a final but not everyone gets a medal?
Ah thanks for explaining the current system to me (:
But… What… Why does it make you less of a douche to leave later? xD That makes no sense, you can’t just make up scenarios where people have longer commitment and are there to make friends in your case, but are selfish in my scenario xD
Again, you don’t really read what I write… How many times do I have to point out, that Im not asking blizzard to change, before you actually understand it? xD And now you’re resulting in calling me things, because you can’t argue for your case?
You mean… Like I actually did in my message, that you apparantly didn’t read?
Bro… Currently transmog runners CANT even roll on items over “raid runners”, so they have to make alts xD And again… Where did I say I want this implemented? I can show you multiple places I said I didnt ask for it, can you show me where I said it should be? I dare you
Well considering multiple people have also replied, and said things I say, but you still end up saying “But people will just leave!! people only raid for transmog!!!” you dont really care about what others have to say… You are stuck in your view, and if people don’t agree, apparantly now they are selfish too… xD
Yes, the idea was never to just give everyone, everything, different ideas was thrown into the discussion and the one you wrote was one of them ^^ That would exactly, allow people that has different intentions for raiding, get a reward, without “stealing” from each other ^^
Yeah, Im also just not gonna reply to certain people anymore. Words are being twisted, and narratives are being made up
Or… You know… Actually read what we write instead of making stuff up. Im done replying to you. Doesn’t matter how many word salads you throw at people, making up stuff and twisting words, wont get you anywhere gl!
You literally both want the apperance to be unlocked for being there when the boss died and unlocked the transmog.
No one is being Hyperbolic or exaggerating… No matter how many word salads you thow at people saying the same thing. Trying to make it land differently.
Just invalidating people who don’t go along with your views is just a bad look.
My bro… I have just lost interest… Like I am sorry. But we have repeated our points over and over again. And I am not interested in doing that to the heath death of the universe…
I wont ever think its a good thing for the game to just give the appearance and cool raid looks to people who didn’t win the item ever…
I think there is a huge value to looting it and winning it. Your suggestion would kill.
Looking forward to see what other people besides us has to say about the topic
I would then urge you to read peoples responses… Multiple people have entered and said different ways my idea could be possible But of course, dumbing it down to “You want loot to be given to everybody!!!” and discrediting everything else, is easier
Actually really good points, if you take the time to read others opinions
Now im done replying to you.
I can like the sound of this idea, to be honest. It is not as generous as the OP’s suggestion of course but it does seem to be a step in the right direction, I think…
hole for leaving after months and years in your guild after getting your transmog and still convince everyone your not just a selfish douche.