Turn Turalyon into a villain

[Liira-die-aldor]

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

I warned ya, that you won’t like it. But Hard reset is imo the only option.

Fair enough, it is your idea and it has a logic behind it. I don’t have to agree with it, but it is one way and I specifically asked you for your opinion so everything is fine.

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

Except Saurfang didn’t repair anything. And Anduin helped him which imo was treason to his allies, and something that could’ve at least lead to some interesting internal problem on Alliance.

I might have had to explain that I meant Saurfang realized things like “Path of honor? with draeni bones had nothing to do with honor” he realized that the whole horde was based on horror and dishonorable deeds. That is what I meant.
Thus I asked what your view as a Hord eplayer is on that. We don’t need Malfurion lecturing Orcs about their deeds, I’d prefer they themselves realize it without an Anduin pointing a finger on a child.

So I still have to ask you and I mean it honstely, I would like to know where you for example draw the line of feeling punished as a player in terms of fixing and reperation and stuff.
Because … we only have 2 options: continue fighting and revanging, or having a positive approach of rebuilding but in my opinion that would have to include the other faction not exclude.
Like Tyrande said towrds Thrall in Shadows Rising (and yes she was of course as a hatefull Night Warrior over the top with her claims, calling out Thall to “whash the bodies of 1000 burned elves and if they forgive you etc.” Which can be seen as a metaphor that the orcs have to do something to get forgiveness but also it would be possible for it.
This is why I asked, what would be seen as unbearable punishment for the player instead of a progressive story for redemption.

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

Well, you had a taste of it in Emerald nightmare raid. You had to fight the nelf that was killed during Twilight Sabotage and blamed Tauren for that. She took her wrath on Thunder Bluff.

I’m not quite sure what you are refering to here unfortunately

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

Well, you won’t please everyone. And I don’t think that regrowing the world tree is a good idea. Maybe the island could be recovered and repurposed. But the new hub should be elsewhere.

Personally I never liked Teldrassil. I allways thought that Hyjal is the actual NE center, I mean it was the reason for their long vigil, Hyjal and Nordrassil is their culture and history not that 4 years old tree.
But out of shere gameplay reasons I think Teldrassil would be it becaus Hyjal is not based ona coast and gameplay wise there has to be a connection from eastern kindgoms to Kalimdor. Can’t think of a clean way to do that with Hyjal.

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

I felt like puking each time people tried to justify killing of Frostmane Kids by dwarves (it was their starting quests for years) and assaulting Zul’Farrak just to get the shiny spoils.

I find that equally disgusting and things that should have never made it into the game. Children are simply a nogo no matter what.

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

Because people believed that it could’ve been third party that is responsible for that, Some Legion remanents, Twilight Hammer, Azshara. People believed that Blizzard wouldn’t be so dumb to put such a thing on Horde.

The image showed Sylvanas standing before that tree if I correctly remember and datamines followed after. Not talking about that one Scene during Blizzcon but the whole year that followed till end of WoT.

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

And really, at least you got narration that it was disaster, and that they deserve revenge and justice, but what About Amani? To this day they’re treated as villains and cannon fodder, with zero consideration for their plight.

The thing with the narration of WoT was … strange I give you that. Because teh questline was telling a completely different story from both sides.
We have had stories like Horde rallying civillians and A CHILD (you spend like 8 quests in Ashenvale to save from a desease) in Astranaar and killing them after taking the city for example.

Amani trolls in uhm thingy …bloodelf thing? Ghostlands?
The issue is that trolls in general were never a unified race and thus some were villians like the Nightborne (Highborne) are for NEs or the Druids of the Flame were.
Not getting your point here. Sorry.
Also I don’t even know the story or lore behind it so I don’t really have an opinion on that.
I think it would actually be cool to have the Amani playing a role again.

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

Edgelords are everywhere, both on Horde and on Alliance, and you’d be suprsed how many Alliance members mocked Nelves for Teldrassil.

I know that. I have been on the receiving end of that. It made me quite WoW for allmost 2 years now for the first time ever.
But might have been confirmation bias, but the amount of horde players who did that type of digusting commenting was on a different megnitude.

[Zakkaru-burning-legion (Zakkaru)]

@Liira-die-aldor

I might have had to explain that I meant Saurfang realized things like “Path of honor? with draeni bones had nothing to do with honor” he realized that the whole horde was based on horror and dishonorable deeds. That is what I meant.

But this is only concerning Orcs, not entire current Horde. You can’t expect Tauren orGoblins to take responsibility for something that they took no part of. This is why I was extremely poor delivery.

@Liira-die-aldor

This is why I asked, what would be seen as unbearable punishment for the player instead of a progressive story for redemption.

It’s hard to say exactly, what I find acceptable don’t have to be acceptable for next person. I personally wouldn’t want to help Alliance. I honestly would prefer the second Cataclysm to it, to get separated by natural obstacles and some hard reset. Not to be forced to repent, and be reminded of something you never agreed with, give me Alliance go rogue instead.

@Liira-die-aldor

I’m not quite sure what you are refering to here unfortunately

Elerethe Renferal I always have trouble remembering her name because it’s so weird.

@Liira-die-aldor

But out of shere gameplay reasons I think Teldrassil would be it becaus Hyjal is not based ona coast and gameplay wise there has to be a connection from eastern kindgoms to Kalimdor. Can’t think of a clean way to do that with Hyjal.

Now we have portals. And You’d have a nice view from so high above. Ragnaros is meant to be dealt with so the southern zone should be neat for inhabitation, and the earth should be very fertile by now from all the scorching.

@Liira-die-aldor

The image showed Sylvanas standing before that tree if I correctly remember and datamines followed after. Not talking about that one Scene during Blizzcon but the whole year that followed till end of WoT.

Standing in front of it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to be responsible for it. It could’ve simply happened right in front of her eyes before they’d prepare for a siege. Especially considering that catapults were not meant to have such a long reach. But what is done is done.

@Liira-die-aldor

Amani trolls in uhm thingy …bloodelf thing? Ghostlands?
The issue is that trolls in general were never a unified race and thus some were villians like the Nightborne (Highborne) are for NEs or the Druids of the Flame were.
Not getting your point here. Sorry.

The point is that Amani are Nelf equivalent but narration never portrayed their plight and suffering, they were denied their martyrology for getting even worse treatment than nelves.

[Ceressà-stormscale]

@Daltor-aggramar

It really wouldn’t because outside of Crowley, we quite literally have no other Gilneas affiliated Worgen who could become racial leaders.

What about Tess? Would she make a good candidate for the Worgen leadership?

@Landrien-turalyon

many players just want to play as heroes and signed to the faction for this.

I totally understand where you’re coming from. I think it’s safe to say everyone, except maybe Forsaken fans, want to be the good guys.

@Blunderhoof-nordrassil

I would have just gone with your other plan to villainbat the bluesnot out of it all, but then ‘nonbiased’ posters will then come and call me out on me being an ape that wants schadenfreude /shrug

Because everyone knows deep inside what was done to the Horde was not fair although they keep pointing at the players and arguing about how they’re all evil and secretly cheering for dead elven children.

Then when the possibility of Alliance going a similar route happens it’s suddenly not so fun anymore and everyone remembers that they are fair and square and totally understand Horde players had no hand in it.

It’s like the vaccination back in school. Everyone laughs at their peers until it’s their turn. Then suddenly it’s not so fun anymore

@Liira-die-aldor

At some point I would like to see Blizzard BUILDING stuff and not allways destroying stuff like a stupid kid at the beach trampeling on everyones sand castles.

But building is hard and actually implies putting effort in their game. Nah, better burn some trees and plague the sewers of the dead dudes. I mean nobody even goes there anymore, right?

@Liira-die-aldor

NEs occupying Orgrimmar, rallying up all of those that are directly responsible for WoT and have them killed. Like some Nurnberger Trials

The 2 leaders responsible for WoT are already gone. Saurfang is dead, Nathanos bit it as well and Sylvanas went for a walk. The soldiers can’t be held accountable as they’re just following orders.

@Liira-die-aldor

The outrage was thus not because Teldrassil was burned but that it was impossibly for Horde players anymore to deny Sylvanas did it out of pure evilness.

Listen mate, despite your beautiful words regarding our buddy here, I will reply politely and say neither you or me knows why Sylvanas did it. Maybe there is a bigger plan, I think both factions are clueless on Sylvanas’ affairs at the moment. Hell, nobody knows what the Jailor wants and why did they attack the Night Elves specifically.

Yes, atm it looks like she’s just a b’tch but I keep my reservations until proven. Feel free to disagree but I don’t believe they went so far with this story without having a way out of it. Sylvanas is the poster girl of the game and I don’t believe they wrote her this way without a good excuse. It doesn’t mean it will be a good enough excuse for you personally, but an excuse nonetheless.

Edit: I might have messed up a little the quotes here, hope I did justice to everyone quoted. If I said smth wrong I appolgise feel free to correct me.

[Liira-die-aldor]

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

But this is only concerning Orcs, not entire current Horde. You can’t expect Tauren orGoblins to take responsibility for something that they took no part of. This is why I was extremely poor delivery.

I agree but the question is didn’t they?
Goblins were taking part, they have even been in Darkshore after. But yes we would need some clearification how and who did WoT. What is the canon here out of 3 perspectives: Alliance, Horde and the novels.
I just said Orcs here out of simplicity, my bad actually.

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

Not to be forced to repent, and be reminded of something you never agreed with, give me Alliance go rogue instead.

So ou would rather prefer the NEs for example spit on the peace treaty and attack the Horde instead? Just asking it would be an equaly valid option. Would be the → more war and revange path, not rebuilding path.
I could live with that aswell, it would suite the narrative and would paint teh allaince more “morally grey”, aswell as having the horde be victims for once to maybe get back some empathy for them. Though as I said earlier with the current state of story everything might be seen as justified and would not lead to what is intended.

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

Elerethe Renferal I always have trouble remembering her name because it’s so weird.

Weired i have never realized that this was in Mulgore. I have to look into that.
But i am not a raider so that might be the reaon. LFR is qeired somehow.

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

Now we have portals. And You’d have a nice view from so high above. Ragnaros is meant to be dealt with so the southern zone should be neat for inhabitation, and the earth should be very fertile by now from all the scorching.

Like I siad I would prefere that day and night, but portals are a very unclean solution I think.
Just my personal thought that Blizz wouldn’t go that route because of that.
And on the other hand I would also love to see a Teldrassil taht resembles the pictures with newer tech instead of that classic tree trunk in the ocean.

Yeah but really if I would have to chose it would be Hyjal and getting Hyjal is for me personally the only way to get over Teldrassil and accept that story.

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

Especially considering that catapults were not meant to have such a long reach. But what is done is done.

There have been a Leak out that Sylvanas used a shard of Sargeras Sword to ignite Teldrassil. The rest of the leak precisely predicted everything of BFA that followed so I assume it was true and in early development Blizz indeed intended that Teldrassil would be burned by Sylvanas herself with some kind of but pulled weapon. But later decided to direct that towards the Horde aswell.

@Zakkaru-burning-legion

The point is that Amani are Nelf equivalent but narration never portrayed their plight and suffering, they were denied their martyrology for getting even worse treatment than nelves.

Amani are not a placeable race, there is a huge difference though.
There is also a huge difference (in my opinion) if you chose to play a race that has los its home from the beginning and the story is about that (and thus you like it) or if that is something that happend 15 years later changing the entire races core. Like it is now happening with Forsaken aswell.

---

@Ceressà-stormscale

What about Tess? Would she make a good candidate for the Worgen leadership?

Tess is being mentioned in the Questline for Darkshore where Genn says if he would refuse to go with the NEs , Tess would do on her own.
So she is allready being portraied as an even more ferocious character then Genn. I like her.

@Ceressà-stormscale

But building is hard and actually implies putting effort in their game. Nah, better burn some trees and plague the sewers of the dead dudes. I mean nobody even goes there anymore, right?

Which is such a shame especially if you look at the beautyful assets they have for NEs, you get a glimps on in Val Sharah, Darkshore and Warsong.
The overgrown wood the flowers it is so beautyful.

@Ceressà-stormscale

The 2 leaders responsible for WoT are already gone. Saurfang is dead, Nathanos bit it as well and Sylvanas went for a walk. The soldiers can’t be held accountable as they’re just following orders.

There are more resonsible than 2 leaders, we have had quests where minor characters rally up civilians and children to kill them in Astranaar. We have the shamans that even pured teh flames and so on.
In the Nurnberger trials not only Himmler and Goebbels were rightfully! sentenced. Guards of concentration camps were aswell, even though their claim was “just to follow orders”.

@Ceressà-stormscale

will reply politely and say neither you or me knows why Sylvanas did it. Maybe there is a bigger plan

Doesn’t matter. Point. Whatever bigger plamn for burning children alive you pull out.

@Ceressà-stormscale

It doesn’t mean it will be a good enough excuse for you personally, but an excuse nonetheless.

There are NO excuses for genocide. And that is the issue I have with players like you looking for excuses.

[Ceressà-stormscale]

@Liira-die-aldor

There are NO excuses for genocide. And that is the issue I have with players like you looking for excuses.

I tell you what. Players like me don’t look for the excuses they look for the bigger picture.

Let’s say if Sylvanas did try to save the whole mortal world from an afterlife of misery.

What are worth the lives of a few thousand then? Nothing imo. I’m not saying that cause it’s the night elves and I don’t care about them. I would say the same if my fav race were to go through said genocide.

With or without her intervention they would all be doomed to eternal suffering. Might as well empower herself to actually try to change their fate than sit back and do nothing.

This is where matters of morality come in hand. Is it right using people as a weapon for a cause they didn’t sign up for? Even if it benefits them? That’s up to you to decide.

I will sound cynical and I’ll probably get rotten tomatoes thrown at me but I like to be open and honest about my views.

Of course there is the possibility she’s just an evil b’tch then I would say bring that loot, hope she drops smth nice.

[Erevien-die-aldor (Erevien)]

The Alliance deserves to get villain battet and lose all their AAA+ characters in the effort of it. Down with the Alliance!

[Liira-die-aldor]

@Ceressà-stormscale

I tell you what. Players like me don’t look for the excuses they look for the bigger picture.

You are looking for excuses.
Twisting everything into soem weired mess, even apologizing releativating bruning children just in order to not accept Sylvans just is evil. Just like other charcters before. Like Arthas, like Sargeras, like Kil Jeaden.

None of them was evil at birth but became. Same for Sylvans.
But what sylvanas fans are constandly doing and what is part of my disgust is the shere amount of victim blaiming and apologistic behaviour.

I won’t even engage in discussions about this. Have had it, liek I said, till the first picture was revealed and it gets even more disgusting after 3 years now.
No matter how you try to twist it. Evil is evil.

[Ceressà-stormscale]

@Liira-die-aldor

You are looking for excuses.

You refuse to accept that the story might go a different path than what you want it to be. That doesn’t make you any better than me. You are so stuck on your self pitty story and can’t imagine the World (of Warcraft) is bigger than the Night Elves that you will do anything to dismantle any theory someone might come up with.

You’re no better than the Sylvanas “simps”.

@Liira-die-aldor

But what sylvanas fans are constandly doing and what is part of my disgust is the shere amount of victim blaiming and apologistic behaviour

Where did I victim blame the Night Elves? Do you know what victim blaming means? Did I say they deserved it? That they asked for it?

@Liira-die-aldor

I won’t even engage in discussions about this. Have had it, liek I said, till the first picture was revealed and it gets even more disgusting after 3 years now.
No matter how you try to twist it. Evil is evil.

Sorry to say, but WoW doesn’t always work like that. Yes, genocide on its own is bad. But after all the Shadowlands spoilers I find it hard to believe anyone will be forever stuck on the Teldrassil story and refuse to see anything beyond it.

[Zarao-colinas-pardas (Zarao)]

@Liira-die-aldor

And that is the issue I have with players like you looking for excuses.

And yet, not long ago, you argued about the justification behind killing and torturing certain civilians.

We may all have our bias.
But if you are to expressively point fingers at people, statements like the above make you sound hypocritical.

Also, wailing to this degree about the Genocide of a race that has built its empire over the bones of Troll tribes, seems a tad weird. I get it that this should be seen as a wronging to correct, but still, i’d tone it down a tad or two.

PS: And regarding the “moral” of it all, i would love to have all races going dirty during warfare. Yes, because war isn’t supposed to be held to such degree. Specially in fantasy settings.

[Daltor-aggramar (Daltor)]

@Ceressà-stormscale

What about Tess? Would she make a good candidate for the Worgen leadership?

Call me old fashioned, but a race should be lead by one of that race, not of another. I’ve said it about Windrunner leading the corpses, it just isn’t right.

Honestly, the Worgen need to be divorced from their human sides, because at this point in time, we’re just treated as human addons.

@Blunderhoof-nordrassil

list those good things

Lets start with the list shall we?
Diversity - All of the Alliance races are forced to be homogenised, everyone is essentially human of a different size or colour.
Even the once savage night elves had to be toned down completely to fit in and turned into purple hippies.

Main characters - Lets face it, in a game about war, main characters are going to die.
Then why are all of the Alliance mains either neutral or useless?
The Horde get storyline after storyline about their mains characters going through a lot, but in comparison the Alliance are stale with all of their powerhouses being neutral or being downright useless until the writers give them a fly Disney pirate ship.

In-game issues caused by players/developers alike -
It’s been done to death, not going to cover it.

Story - The story always revolves around the Horde being proactive to do something, forcing the reactive Alliance to respond. It’s lazy and many of us are tired of it.
Even in fantasy, an Alliance of kingdoms wouldn’t put up with this much crap from another rival faction without finally ending them.
The writing is bad, the Horde never changes and the Alliance never ends.

[Ceressà-stormscale]

I tell you what. It doesn’t matter as long as your interests are truly represented.

Genn is pureblood, so to say, but he’s a melancholic old man who sees Anduin as his lost son and doesn’t realize his duty is to his people first.

Sylvanas might’ve been an elf but she was a great leader to the Forsaken. Sure, you might argue she’s just a fascist maniac but you see, the Forsaken have no problem with that.

Similarly, Tess might actually be the leader they need. If anyone can stand up for them and lead them to victory, reclaim their lands and pride, by all means they should accept her.

[Liira-die-aldor]

@Zarao-colinas-pardas

And yet, not long ago, you argued about the justification behind killing and torturing certain civilians.

No I didn’t.
I said that I asked wethe ror not Paladins and the light would find ways to justify it. I myself said I find it evil and inapprorpiate in said situation.

Also there is a difference between Genocide and torture, whataboutism doesn’t work.

@Zarao-colinas-pardas

i would love to have all races going dirty during warfare

I don’t necessarily aggree, but there are differences. To which extend. And rallying up civilians and children and then kill them is not the part of dirt I want in a game I play to have fun.
It serves no purpose it is not necessary to portrait a faction as evil to cross certain lines and people who defnd that or find that great are in my opinion lacking a moral compass and are pretty disgusting.

There are just things you don’t do and don’t need to do in order to transport a certain narrative.

[Northgrave-ravencrest (Northgrave)]

@Daltor-aggramar

You think you do, but you really don’t.

I think I do and I actually do. I enjoyed the theme of 8.0 and 8.1 much more than theme of 7.0 and 7.1, I only started hating BfA once they fully went with the old god crap.

Same with datamining, I was actually excited when BfA beta was going on, whereas with Shadowlands I can just say the zones look cool, but the lore is just really uninteresting to me.

@Daltor-aggramar

Honestly, the Worgen need to be divorced from their human sides, because at this point in time, we’re just treated as human addons.

Worgen are the humans of Gilneas first, that’s their lore since Cataclysm. You are pretty much told that in the starting zone and even in the heritage quest line.

[Daltor-aggramar (Daltor)]

@Northgrave-ravencrest

Worgen are the humans of Gilneas first, that’s their lore since Cataclysm. You are pretty much told that in the starting zone and even in the heritage quest line.

In that lies the problem, that is why our racial leader spent 3 expacts standing beside the SW throne doing nothing.

For as long as Worgen are treated the same way the Human kingdoms are, they will forever be pushed out of the spotlight.

As for when they are in the spotlight, it will be for a token reason and nothing more.
I’ve done all of the heritage questlines thus far and the Worgen one was the shortest and most disappointing.
Added nothing to the lore, nothing to the overall story.

The questline was a rehash of the opening zone and the armour is a rehash of some cloth cosmetics which don’t even have physics.

[Northgrave-ravencrest (Northgrave)]

You can either be Gilnean and wait till Blizzard finally realizes we are supposed to have the zone and reclaim it or you can become a furry night elf after completely giving up on all Gilneas lore. Pick your poison.

[Daltor-aggramar (Daltor)]

So I can be Gilnean and completely forgotten about.
Or I can be Nelf and constantly beaten down by writers.
Oh, the choices…

[Northgrave-ravencrest (Northgrave)]

@Daltor-aggramar

Or I can be Nelf and constantly beaten down by writers.

Except this is literally false. When something happens to nelves they are immediatelly given revenge content, like the Darkshore warfront. Whereas places like Theramore are just gone in one patch without anyone caring about them or offscreened like Southshore.

[Blunderhoof-nordrassil (Blunderhoof)]

@Daltor-aggramar

Diversity - All of the Alliance races are forced to be homogenised, everyone is essentially human of a different size or colour.
Even the once savage night elves had to be toned down completely to fit in and turned into purple hippies.

I feel this is disingenuous…The night Elves are certainly no longer “purple hippies”- one of the good things that came out of the War of Thorns, with a strong leader that cares for her people, so why are you seeing this otherwise?
The part about “no diversity”…you knew what the Alliance races were when you started playing that faction, a big group(supposedly) of people even want Blood elves on the Alliance…another shade of human in appearance, I mean atleast be honest if you’re going with “short human” /“small human” analogies…seems to me that if you don’t like the Alliance races, you could just play Horde if you like those beter?
Also who or what “forced” the Alliance to be “homogenised” or why did the Night Elves “have to be toned down completely”?
What is your basis for it and how is it the Horde’s fault?

@Daltor-aggramar

Main characters - Lets face it, in a game about war, main characters are going to die.
Then why are all of the Alliance mains either neutral or useless?
The Horde get storyline after storyline about their mains characters going through a lot, but in comparison the Alliance are stale with all of their powerhouses being neutral or being downright useless until the writers give them a fly Disney pirate ship.

Let’s face if they write these characters as some sort of dragonball z characters in a faction war narrative…it will get rather boring and onesided fast. So they should then tone down those characters, which 1. will lead to outcry about someones favorite character getting nerfed( I can’t relate to that mindset, but w/e) or 2. Remove them from the playing field by whatever means.

• atleast they’re salvageable, wich dead Horde characters aren’t, not to mention that neutrality isn’t only reserved for Alliance characters either, Thrall, Hamuul, Muln etc…list is not as long as the Alliance’ but then, Horde has a way smaller roster anyway.
  And yes it’s a war game, but the deathcount has been rather onesided, hasn’t it?

@Daltor-aggramar

In-game issues caused by players/developers alike -
It’s been done to death, not going to cover it.

That’s a shame, I’m interrested in what those issues may be. Just going with “not going to cover it”…comes across as a cop out. You were going to explain your arguments as to why you think the way you do, after all.

@Daltor-aggramar

Story - The story always revolves around the Horde being proactive to do something, forcing the reactive Alliance to respond. It’s lazy and many of us are tired of it.
Even in fantasy, an Alliance of kingdoms wouldn’t put up with this much crap from another rival faction without finally ending them.
The writing is bad, the Horde never changes

I think if your aim is to “have the horde be ended” an mmo isn’t for you, if that’s the only thing that suffices…then you’ll never be satisfied.
Other than that I agree completely, it should be the other way around for a change, it should have been two factions trading blows from the beginning instead of one doing all the punching and the other being the punching bag.
If you had read the replies here, you’d have noticed that despite our different opinions, in that part we’re all pretty much on the same page.

[Northgrave-ravencrest (Northgrave)]

@Blunderhoof-nordrassil

That’s a shame, I’m interrested in what those issues may be. Just going with “not going to cover it”…comes across as a cop out. You were going to explain your arguments as to why you think the way you do, after all.

I think he means the whole mythic raid balance stuff. But that has no relation to lore, only to Blizzard’s incompetence with racials from Cata to Legion and also with the fact that there’s less and less people interested in high end raiding every tier.

[Blunderhoof-nordrassil (Blunderhoof)]

Oh, yeah that is an issue that needs to be remedied…to bad it’s because of sheep following some hardcore raiders going for a 1% or not even advantage…

I wonder if they make the faction changes free(I know, who am I kidding) for a short time, it’ll see allot of big guilds and raiders going back to the Alliance.

But then I’m one of those chumps that thinks people should play the faction or race they want to play and not look at statistics that don’t mean anything unless you’re one if the top end raiders