Night Elves didn’t do diplomacy either, at the start they were just simply trying to drive both Horde and Alliance out of their homes without any form of diplomacy either!
They attacked on sight, iirc
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Doesn’t sound like they made any overtures at peace or diplomacy after wandering into Frostwolf territory. Instead it sounds like you’re using the narrative (from a biased NPC, no less!) to justify the Alliance’s genocide attempt.
Which is kinda what I said happens.
Does it matter? The last interactions between the Horde and Kul Tiras was their leader trying to genocide the Horde, bombing the innocent troll villages of the Echo Isles, trying to assassinate the Warchief under the false banner of parley, and subsequent repeated settlings/invasions into Durotar.
If anything them being kicked out of the Alliance only reinforces it - it means Kul Tiras was never subject to the nebulous ceasefires and diplomatic attempts. There was only ever war between them.
One day I’ll get my Azer’dorei Empire.
They initially attacked the Horde because the orcs reeked of demonic corruption and were cutting down lumber. They attacked the Alliance for being allied with the orcs. The moment both factions were explained to them there was peace until continued Horde pushes into Ashenvale forced the night elves into the Alliance.
Seems to me that the Frostwolves attacked them and the Stormpikes responded in kin. Ultimately, as I’ve already stated, per the official description of the BG we don’t know who started it.
Imagine being so foolish you’d attack an enemy you hadn’t actively battled for years in the middle of an ongoing world war.
I’ll briefly pop in to talk about Brenadam:
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Kul Tiras was very much neutral at the time, even slightly hostile towards the Alliance. (About half the Kul Tirans players met were trying to kill them.)
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Sylvanas’ justification for the Stormsong invasion, as far as I remember, was to disrupt potential supply lines should they join the Alliance. Of course her invasion ironically pushed them closer to joining.
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Sylvanas addresses the controversy of attacking purely civilian targets in letters to the officers in charge. She simply brushes it off as “This is war…”. Of course, in hindsight, we know the actual reason was to cause as much death as possible for her partnership with discount Thanos.
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The horrors inflicted on Brenadam were pretty vile. Unarmed peasants were skewered onto the sides of barns while their farms burnt, to give just one example. Farmers that flee say “No… not them. Not again!”, implying Orcs have done this to Kul Tiras before. (Most likely in the Second War?)
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Warhammer 40k would like a word.
I’m really interested in what point you think Gilneas is neutral to anyone but the PC and Voss who helped with it’s reclamation from the shadows then they all swiftly withdrew as to not cause any further aggression / overstay their welcome. Is there some other source that states my Orc meat vendor can now walk into Gilneas and happily set up a stand amongst the Worgen people?
Bel’ameth fair dos everyone chipped in on and helped defend and replant but Horde characters I have no idea what reason they have to think of going there either except to see the new world tree.
People who defend Neutral RP to these lengths that they grasp at straws like “Well my PC can enter it so I can enter it IC” (Not that you might be doing that Moridunum)
Are at a point where I think they’re RP’ing not for the setting of Warcraft but as a Platform for RP within Warcraft.
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This is the big problem.
Attacking Brenadam itself is nothing too new from either of the factions, but when specifically only the unarmed civilians are being pierced to walls while alive and the attacking NPC’s making constant remarks about how fun it is to torture them and even a few grunts chasing children with weapons.
As I’ve said before, Blizzard has a tendency to write parts of the Horde (Specifically the orcs and forsaken) actively relishing in torturing civilians over just fighting enemy soldiers.
Edit: But to be fair to the Horde players too, you have Kul Tiran NPC’s when you play Horde who openly shout how they want to make maypoles of your entrails.
And the goblin resort(s) being attacked and killing staff workers, the vulpera caravans and the void necromancy of Loa children. BfA just wrote the opposite faction to be as unlikable as possible. The issue is that the same faction never sees that on their own end because it was basically schrödinger’s war crimes.
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Well, except that all those examples of the Alliance war crimes are part of the Alliance war campaign, not the Horde…
'cept the Vulpera Purge Squads, both sides saw that.
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You’re right, my bad.
What I was thinking that wasn’t shown for the Alliance was the negative remarks, like the Kul Tiran defender’s in…I think it’s Tirasgarde, that openly shout how they want to gut you and the maypole bit and all that.
It is played up more on the Horde bit though, much like how Brennadam is played up on Alliance. (If I recall the Horde version of Brennadam, or its closest equivelent is a town full of evil void tidecallers, not civilians like it is in Alliance.)
You’re reinforcing the point there, as Brennadam was originally pointed out as an example of how the Horde is guilty of horrific crimes that gets highlighted as reprehensible and foul, which you’ve pointed out, while the misdeeds of the Alliance (while not being anywhere near as bad as the ones that the Horde is guilty of) are whitewashed and ignored.
On one hand, you’ve got the Horde being depicted as awful civilian-torturers with characters like Saurfang and Baine wringing their hands over the dishonourable deeds of the Horde and how the Horde has lost its way yet again.
On the other hand, the Alliance inflicts all sorts of fiery and void-based death on Horde and Horde-aligned civilians with no commentary on how questionable such behaviour is, with these quest lines typically ending with the Alliance leadership patting themselves on the back for how honourable they’ve been.
This isn’t whataboutism, as the Horde is undeniably the worst of the two when it comes to war crimes. It’s just a case of pointing out how the Alliance did some kind of nasty stuff at points without any of the navel-gazing, guilt-bearing or vilification that the Horde had to put up with.
Actually, the Alliance world quest regarding vulpera during the Vol’dun Faction Assault doesn’t feature the purge squads at all. Only the Horde gets a narrative regarding the purge squads, while the Alliance get a world quest that is all about non-violently disabling the transport infrastructure of the Horde in the zone, by scaring off vulpera and destroying transported supplies.
The vulpera are not our enemy, but we cannot allow them to transport supplies for the Horde.
This totem should scare away the vulpera without harming them. Then you can focus on the primary objective–destroying those Horde supplies.
The Alliance just gets to scare vulpera off with a totem and destroy supplies, while the Horde has to free imprisoned vulpera who are about to be burned alive by 7th Legion mages, warlocks and shaman. That second part never got mentioned to Alliance players at all.
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As a primarily Alliance player ,I think the most blatantly obvious one I can recall of the top of my head is the part of the war campaign where you go in with Halfus and Falstad to disrupt Horde diplomats to Zandalar. It’s the one that has you throw diplomats into the void.
But near the end of the chapter, a Zandalari warship has spotted the Alliance camp, and will return to warn the Zandalari of Alliance presence, which will make them side with the Horde.
So as you fly on your way to the ship, you get to listen to Halfus and Falstad lament over how sad they are and how hard it is for them, because now it means they have to kill every single person on the entire ship. No prisoners, nothing.
But it’s still written to be "But its sad for us cus we need to do 
"
(And then on the ship, the Zandalari are depicted as bloodthirsty monsters and at the end Falstad and Halfus congratulate themselves for stopping the evil and saving the day)
Won´t this be the case with Silvermoon post-Midnight too, though?
If you can say that Bel´ameth is actually Alliance and the fact that Horde can canonically enter it without being attacked on sight doesn´t mean anything for that Alliance status, won´t Silvermoon be in the exact same situation after we deal with the massive Void invasion that will threaten it?
How is night elves allowing Horde to visit Bel´ameth after Horde helps saving Amirdrassil any different from blood elves allowing Alliance to visit Silvermoon after Alliance helps save it?
Really the only difference I see is (likely) continued presence of void and high elves in Silvermoon post-Midnight. However, how is that any different from blood elves having a quarter in old (after orcs destroyed it) capital of the draenei, or blood elves having a quarter in traditionally Alliance city of Dalaran?
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Tsk, tsk.
Once again, you prove too weak and soft to thrive in this world. Draenor would’ve eaten you alive.
No race in this game has a sensible basis to declare neutrality. Once again, “long lifespans” don’t inherently translate to “suddenly, genocide is ok”.
Seems those long ears give you short sight. 'tis not about balancing death with more death, elf. It’s a matter of principle. Forgive and forget works for some, but we can’t all be cuddly monks from beyond the mists.
Of course, for an elf.
Do tell, Highborne. What happened the last time your ilk got together to practice the arcane unchecked? Hm… Curious.
Does it?
Ahhhh… One of the hopefuls.
Game title.
Clearly not enough.
Did just fine for a couple decades.
I agree. The larger world does not care.
Then again, it’s step one. When Orgrimmar and Stormwind go fully neutral, I wonder what we’ll do then.
It’s good that they stick to their loyalties. Backstabbing and trickery should be left to evil warlocks such as myself. Here’s some grog, by the way. Mind not the green fumes. Have a sip.
I feel as if it could be the best start for such a thing. Either having the city separated into halves, or something like that. Mechanically, the Alliance heroes could simply be allowed within the city “on a pass” without completely making the place a neutral hub.
Let’s go for that hat trick, baby.
Rare wisdom for a knife-ear.
In Siege of Dazar’Alor, when the Horde plays through the alliance segments, Genn Greymane says some wild stuff. I think it’s fun how we got that.
Storytelling-wise, it’s fun to have your perception of the world skewed by your betters.
This is still crazy, by the way. Even if the Horde chipped in.
Hello Mr. Kissinger, come visit my cambodian village.
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You raise some good points much to what I agree with as well.
Ask blizzard not me I think it’s ludicrous that Horde are allowed anywhere near Bel’ameth outside of Cenarion Circle.
We don’t know the story Yet on Midnight. These are simple speculations that mostly everyone is calling that Silvermoon will become Neutral.
I disagree with the fact of it becoming a Neutral city purely off the basis of; Ren’dorei have openly been betraying and killing their former Sin’dorei kin on the reg as well as Quel’dorei have always taken every opportunity to take a score at the Sin’dorei as well.
Following with the RP; The same people I’m seeing trying to push for a Neutral Silvermoon are the same people who would openly sign on to RP-PVP Campaigns and talk about how Silvermoon is this, that and the third but now it’s speculated on becoming a Neutral town it’s “Oh I love me High Home, love me Sin’dorei people.”
Also going to tag on the same people would openly put on blast about Horde RP’ers going anywhere near Gilneas and / or Stormwind (Which tbf I agree with again)
I’m going to strongly push and hope that this is at best scenario case that there is only a minority quarter of Silvermoon portioned to Neutrality and the Horde aren’t losing another city again.
Just tired of seeing Horde taking L’s constantly and ruining the dynamic for Sin’dorei witih the previous flirts of switching sides whilst there’s characters that are young and raised to hate the Alliance or those who have seen both sides much like my own character and still prefers the Horde.
Yes, I am Horde bias.
Edit; To add on to my original point of ludicrous that Horde allowed to be near Bel’ameth. I mean fair dos as in we did aid it but I don’t agree with Horde actually going there without any other reason except seeing the World Tree which they can view from afar.
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As I’ve said before, I think Dazar’Alor was an interesting way to show why stuff might be different. Because the entire gimmick of that raid is that you get told the other side’s perspective from an unreliable source.
The problem with the rest of the war campaign being inconsistent is that we are directly experiencing it, and we as players also have a sort of omnipotence knowledge of what is actually real and not.
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Danuser was a hero… I just couldn’t see it…
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A cosmos divided will not survive what is to come
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One of the only things that we know about Midnight is what Metzen said about it:
… You will not only help reunify the scattered elven tribes of Azeroth…
The narrative of Amirdrassil has always been about making it a new home for the night elves, even if the Horde are allowed to pass through as guests. The narrative of Midnight seems to be more about the “reunification of the scattered elven tribes,” which could mean that Silvermoon City could become home to the other “elven tribes,” such as the high elves and void elves and maybe more.
So even if the Alliance is allowed to pass through, there’s a good chance that unlike Amirdrassil, Silvermoon City will also be home to some races that are typically Alliance-associated. That’s my guess when I hear about the “reunification of the scattered elven tribes,” but it’s just a guess until we get more information a year or so from now.
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I’m still huffing copium that he meant trolls and not elves, since we’ve never had elven groups described as ‘tribes’ before and he just misspoke.
Unfortunately Arator hanging out in Silvermoon for no reason doesn’t help that hope much at all.
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Look at him. He’s laughing at you.
Kill him.
Kill him now.
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