it’s pinnacle stealth technology
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Absolutley disagree. Making a character have prejudice, be it racism, sexism or anything else, does not automatically make them well written.
In alot of cases, especially in roleplay, it is very much the opposite.
ENOUGH! I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF YOUR PITIFUL ALLIANCE RHETORIC!
STEP OUT OF LINE AGAIN AND I SHALL BANISH YOU TO THE NETHER, TO BE FOREVER TORMENTED BY THE LEGIONS OF VILE DEMONS THAT LURK IN ITS SHATTERED CORNERS.
Of course. This is a World of Warcraft. You may express your disdain for other groups, but the gender divide lacks… Vision. Whilst it is true that plenty Male Human Paladins would argue in favour of such classic societal roles, I have yet to meet one of those able to defeat even the frailest woman in Durotar. My own grandmother (may her soul never find rest) would easily dispose of your weakling stormwind cavalry.
However, you derail the purpose of this discussion.
Do not test my hospitality further, Alliance dogs, and keep your “low fantasy” to yourselves. You purposefully choose to exist in a world without weapons more advanced than a crossbow, and that is why you will perish before my endless hordes of devils.
So, on a return to the topic.
I feel that the Arathi being set up as villains isn’t as much of a disservice as some have talked about it. After thoroughly exploring their lands, and seeing them alredy shattering into three currents of thought it could be easy to assume that their home, with uprisings to boot, would be much the same. Of course, no desperation or threat from Nerubians there that we know of…
However, be they zealots or not, and seeing how my enchanting supplies repository (Silvermoon City) spirals towards neutrality… Perhaps it is they who pose as part of the threat that justifies these unions.
Wether we go as invaders, saviours, destroyers or builders, I do not care.
I am a very old orc. I just wish to hold the still-thinking brains of a noble human paladin in my hands one more time before I pass on leaving naught but destruction and spite in my wake.
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I know Orcs aren’t known for brains but this is ridiculous! The Arathi are a shambles at best! The power houses of Khaz Algar are the Earthen and Nerubians. The threat likely comes from the Earthen losing control of Titan artifacts. Though I don’t really mind wiping out all the Nerubians regardless what they do.
It’s mentioned in Lord of the Clans too and in game.
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Lorin_Remka
https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Crossroads_Conscription
I’m happy to have met you. Thrall will be glad to know that more females like you and I are taking the initiative to push forward in the Barrens.
I see that look in your eyes, do not think I will tolerate any insolence. Thrall himself has declared the Hordes females to be on equal footing with you men. Disrespect me in the slightest, and you will know true pain.
“An ostler has a mood and he kicks the dog. A mage has his moods and a town disappears.”
- Anduin Lothar.
See, the problem with this line of thinking beyond what it might imply for IRL views (not saying there’s anything there with you, mind you!) is that it is entirely baseless in virtually all Warcraft societies beyond either one or two examples in the lore or those declared entirely non-canon.
Edit: I forgot Magni, but that story repeatedly paints him as being objectively wrong and he moves past it.
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Yeah and it makes out like Emperor Tharissian did nothing wrong. Which is fine if you like the Twilight hammer and all the other horrors you find in Black Rock Depths including slavery. Story says Magni bad but evidence is kinda grey on that one. Moira was cool with all that though and this is fine.
Beyond what? having their own prejudices? If your a human and you don’t hate undead and Orcs you haven’t been paying attention…which ironically makes sense. After wrathgate you would never trust forsaken at anything…other than to back you up against the Burning legion.
As recent as WoD:
With little opportunity to exercise her tactical brilliance under the ancient social structure of the orc clans, Gar’an was thrilled to be one of the first warriors to volunteer for naval duty under the Iron Horde. Instantly successful in battle, she was named Admiral of the Iron Horde fleet and selected Marak and Sorka as her lieutenants.
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Emperor Thaurissian was opposed to all of which you mentioned, given that they were by and large the result of the Dark Iron’s enslavement by Ragnaros, something that Moira supported. Not sure how Thaurissian treating Moira in a way Magni never would - allowing her to do as she wished instead of controlling her, automatically makes it so he did nothing wrong regardless.
This is entirely unrelated to sexism which, unlike the generational warfare between the races of WoW, has little basis in fact beyond the odd instance. The notion of a human having to hate undead and orcs is disproven by several neutral organisations where both work side by side even as the Alliance and Horde slaughtered each other.
Fair, but that still stands to my broader point that there is only a handful of examples of this in the lore and it is either very old lore or one that is contradicted frequently. In WoD we see many high ranking orc women in the Iron Horde’s clans who do not suffer under any “ancient social structure”.
I think that reinforces their point that while traditional Orc society was sexist, in regards to female warriors, the Horde has long moved past that. (Or the Iron Horde in that particular case - I’m guessing Garrosh’ influence might have persuaded the chieftains to recruit female officers?)
It’s an interesting nugget of lore though. I didn’t remember it existed!
I still think it was bad that night elf females got to be druids and night elf males got to be Sisters of Elune, or warriors.
Let cultures have their quirks!
(I know it was gameplay reasons, but still!)
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Garrosh was a feminist 
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A fantasy culture, especially one that seems to be set up for something of a more antagonistic role, needs to have some sharpness to its corners (intolerence, sexism, death penalty etc) because otherwise they fall a bit flat. I mean even the pandaren of Halfhill showed some pretty overt distrust towards so called “citypaws”. But bridging that gap between the characters as the story progresses makes for a pretty cozy narrative.
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The RPG book has some interesting stuff in it but I wouldn’t use it as a guide for anything, most of the contents is just an old D&D edition with a bootleg warcraft logo pasted over it.
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And some of it was fairly nonsensicle iirc. The Grimtotem having a rite of passage in which they HAD to murder someone. Yet the tauren just tolerated them anyway.
If you can’t write an antagonistic culture without making them sexist,then it falls flat regardless. There are so many more interesting ways to go about it.
Like this. Outside of a handful of instances where the sexism orc women face is contradicted by everything else we see there isn’t any basis for it in WoW.
The Grimtotem being virulently xenophobic to all non-Grimtotem tauren but had an alliance with the Forsaken, and the tauren didn’t do anything about the Grimtotem because they aren’t “into wholesale slaughter, and not all the stories about the Grimtotems are true.” The population numbers the RPG fluff gave us for Azeroth’s cities was utter nonsense too, like Stormwind having more dwarves living in it than Ironforge does.
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Straw man, that isn’t what he said or anyone said. Nobody cares about sexism, NOBODY! Its just the fact that other cultures should be allowed to be different. So can a culture by sexist? yes and you seem perfectly fine with racism.
Personally i dislike “Nerubians are just like us” but i am guessing your the sort of person who likes that. That is fine its just taste and opinion.
On topic - Doesn’t anyone else feel its kinda difficult to see any threat now that we defeated the Burning Legion Old Gods and Sergaras everything else seems small time.
Those darn night elves and their refusal to allow men to join the higher ranks of the Sisterhood, Wardens, Watchers, and Sentinels.
Unlike the liberal night elven males, who have (secretly) trained female druids so they can take high positions of leadership as Archdruids the moment the Cenarion Circle allowed them.
What do you mean it’s unrealistic Theramore alone had a higher population then the entire Horde, lol.
Not really. Dragons were a suitable thread and Xal’atath is “dangerous” because of her using her feet to manipulate entire kingdoms into doing her bidding! Not because she’s such a power house!
You care enough that your first several comments in this threads were about it, his comment included it.
Racism has a basis in this setting, and it’s not a case of “they’re different form us!”, but comes directly from decades of generation warfare.
They aren’t really that different from the living Nerubians we encounter in WotLK, but no I don’t really like that.
Gender norms isn’t inherently sexist + night elves did not prevent men from fighting period.
Honestly kind of makes sense when you look at the story Blizzard wrote for the orcs, tauren and trolls. The orcs were so few in numbers they could sail to Kalimdor on ships stolen form one human town, with enough room leftover to have space for what little remained of the Darkspear Tribe and the Bloodhoof Tribe was hunted to near extinction by centaurs.
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No, because at the end of the day, beating up a Titan (Argus) with help of other Titans and the most OP artifacts on Azeroth, then watching those Titans imprison another Titan (Sargeras) didn´t really put us above other threats when those borrowed powers (pun intended) are taken away.
Meanwhile, Old Gods are tumors sent by Void Lords and while they´re definitely powerful, I don´t think they´re on a level of their own when it comes to power.
Also, it´s all very relative when it comes to threat. Jailer wanted to “rewrite the reality” and almost achieved it, but what effect did it have? We lost nothing, the world was fine, so did it even matter?
Meanwhile, night elves lost their world tree for 8 years in-universe to intercontinental Horde catapults. That definitely seems like a much bigger threat and consequence than (canonically) one of the most powerful beings in the cosmos.
Same goes for Xal´atath, yes, Khadgar (and possibly Modera) surviving the fall of Dalaran cheapened it a bit, but we still lost an iconic location. And if she ends up corrupting Sunwell in Midnight, she will be a villain that caused the most destruction on Azeroth since Scourge/Legion combo in Warcraft 3 (not counting faction wars here).
We can knock off Titans (x2, we beat up Aggramar on our own), Old Gods (killed 'em all, something the Titans didn’t manage), Dragon Aspects (sometimes in a rando dungeon), Elemental Lords, Loa, the lords of the Burning Legion, and the fully empowered archetype of Death itself, but come reset time we’ll still be struggling against some random Nerubian queen.
Yeah, Jarod Shadowsong is the most obvious one to point to but he’s not unique. Kur’talos Ravencrest was another and there’s minor characters as well.
The Sentinels seemed to be gender exclusive, and the Wardens seem to be (though a) the RPG stuff says it’s just mostly women not exclusively, and b) the Watchers are not), alongside the Priesthood (fem) and druidism (masc) but soldiering wasn’t.