Literally copy pasted in some places without regard for the setting, leading to awkward lore about paladins and mages being split into wizards (math nerds) and sorcerers (theatre kids).
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“Some classes, such as bard and monk are simply not relevant to the Warcraft game world.” - Warcraft Campaign Setting (2003)
Oh if only they knew…
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You’re not entirely wrong. Lore as it is just has the circle being sexist but not all druids are/were circle druids and you have an ancient female archdruid in Koda Steelclaw. More too but I forget their names as they’re largely throwaway npcs.
Point is; they never elaborated decently on why and how the cultural caste system by sexes was set up, how it operated and apparently it was isolated to the main institutions of the sisterhood (duh), sentinel army and malfurion’s cenarion circle with its abolition being met with one big shrug. “Get with the times, old man!”
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If they keep building on Augvoker being a party buffer you get a bard. With draconic sorcery to boot. We never left the D&D cage, it just got bigger…
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Yet the Sentinels and Sisterhood are still clearly sexist, where’s the male sentinel-captains? The Brothers of Elune creating Moonwells!
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They’ll work their way up the ladder. Give it a few centuries.
Restricing women is bad evil sexism, restricting men is alright.
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Nope you read what you wanted to read. What was said was other cultures can be different then you and couple of others argued against points nobody made.
Its sad that its true.
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Worth noting here too that its more specifically speciesm. Prejudice against ethnicities/skin color is not a thing either.
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You did also say that having prejudice is automatically good writing and to not have it is bad and boring.
I disagreed with both notions.
And as already said, yes cultures can absolutley be different. But if your only way to express that difference is to include some sort of prejudice, I just think thats both really uncreative and lazy.
No I didn’t. You just made that up. I said character flaws were good writing and they are, flawless characters are extremely bad writing aka Mary Sue.
Quoted for your benefit. So please do not say I am making things up.
Im not arguing that characters need to be flawless. But that once again, if the only flaw you can think of is prejudice, thats pretty lazy and in my opinion, poor writing.
There are so many other ways to write flawed characters.
Having Johnny the Paladin call all women “wenches” and make comments about dark skinned humans doesnt make him a good character just because he has flaws. (Using this as a general example as I have seen it often).
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Yeah the RPG has alot of stuff in it like that. I believe the RPG was also the only mention of that the Horde was against women being soldiers and similar.
Literally your first comment was “god forbid other cultures have different standards than ours today” in response to the presence of sexism or utter lack thereof in canon WoW lore.
Fair!
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It’s the low hanging fruit of making negative aspects to your character. It’s quick, it’s easy. It doesn’t really take a lot of thought.
Mind i also think it’s fair to be fairly guarded around it, does this character dislike mine out of some weird opinion/experience/prejudice or is it because the player saw that warhammer dwarf rant video and mentally thought “XD”? You do tend to get vibes from time to time.
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Perfectly captured my thoughts on it, thank you!
Not a single fandom has been so utterly ruined by memes as 40K and Fantasy has.
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Memes are a pretty natural development in fandoms, and I do think they tend to be mostly fine if also remembered that they are memes and self-contained.
But it’s like with D&D. People see a meme or funny compilation, and think “I want that”, and then try to push it into other places with no context, such as into roleplay or their own campaigns.
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I think there is some prejudice against ethnicity, I mean I can’t think humans would look favourably upon Alteraci.
Or orcs upon Stormreaver or Burning Blade or Twilights Hammer clan orcs!
Or tauren upon Grimtotem, Feltotem or Bloodtotem tauren.
Or trolls upon Gurubashi. Or Zandalari who look down on Farraki, Amani and Drakkari trolls.
Or night elves (until recently) upon Highborne.
Uh, there’s loadsa examples!
Skin colour I agree with tho!
That said, I do think sexism and racism can work fine in Fantasy (or scifi) settings if it fits the setting and is done with care. Sadly neither of the two is usually the case and as said above its more done because of either shock value or because its easy.
The way night elf sexism was portrayed was fine because it wasn’t about putting the other gender in “their place” but because it was how their culture had developed, but I also understand the reason for its removal was more gameplay and that new lore depicted men and women, historically, in basicly every role with only the Sisterhood remaining exclusive.
But WoW is no longer the setting that has a place for sexism because having a existentional threat and/or genocidal war every year makes sexism kinda crazy. (Not specieism tho, fudge them orcs!).
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Nah, we deserve it.
Vixi is simply stating that it’s arguably a lazy and low effort way to add negative traits to your character.
The setting does support it, albeit sexism is often shown in a massively negative light (e.g Aedelas Blackmoore). You can, ultimately do what you want, Aerilen - for example - is wary of trolls. He’s had hundreds of years of conflict with them and it’s constantly battling with his time in the Horde. It’s complicated. It’s easy to fall into a pit of resentment.
That alone doesn’t make him a ‘good’ character or ‘mature’ or ‘3D’. Arguably, some might find him being a glory hound and willing to (or not being able/be willing to see that it will) trample anyone and everyone into the dirt - even if it ends up with dead friends - for nebulous goals, a more interesting angle than him side-eyeing the nearby Zandalari.
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