Which is a crime since he deserved so much more.
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And then he just named Sylvanas as warchief because blizz told him to do itâŠ
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Yep I am pretty sure VolâJin said âBlizzard has granted me a vision( not spirits!) That you must lead - for marketing reasons. Trolls arenât as popular as elves, so now you must be Warchief, step out of the shadow and completely steal my thunder - I canât even have a cinematic without you being the center of attentionâ.
And this is how Zakkaru quit WoW before Legion even launched.
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They buried Volâjin even in the cinematic for Legion and on the Broken Shore itself. His only role was appointing Sylvanas, talk about a wasted character.
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I am still salty af over it. Iâd rather never have him as Warchief if that would be all what was waiting for him and just keep him as racial leader.
But having no racial leader has itâs perks. You canât claim he/she is spineless for not reacting to Sylvanas.
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Every good leader of the new horde is gone sigh. Can we hope to see Thrall again?
Always, thatâs partly why I left. All conversations turns into a morality duel âMy pixels are better/more moral/more justified/whateverâ than yours, no matter what was the starting point.
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He is chilling on vacation ever since players bullied him out.
Shame.
It is pretty black and white, it has always been black and white with Sylvanas.
Ever since her transformation in Warcraft 3 TFT she has been shown to be dark and borderline evil. Since WoW she has been getting progressively worse throughout every expansion she has been in.
Vanilla? Plague experimentation on both the living and her own people (this includes both Alliance AND Horde people).
TBC? Nothing much I can really think of she did, beyond basically spit in your face after giving her the locket.
WorLK? Wrathgate was her 100% now, forcing the Blood Elves to fight, not caring about the Horde soldiers what died in the PoS and so on.
Cata? Gilneas invasion, Hillsbrad genocide, genocide in general I guess, accepting Scourge forces into her rank, âPoWâ camps which were just Human plantations and so on.
MoP? Same as TBC, wanting to raise the Blood Elven troops at SoO I guess?
WoD nothing happened.
Legion? Stormhein, enslavement of Eyir, deal with Heyla, abandonment of the Alliance on the Broken Shore.
BfA? WoT in general, plaguing her own troops, killing her own people to stop the possibility of resentment after The Gathering and so on.
You are right on one thing, how on earth can people discuss this without resorting to her being evil?
Is there one single thing she has done in WoW out of the kindness of her heart rather than something that she would have benefited from? I generally canât think of any.
She did it to gain leeway and threaten the Blood Elves to doing what she wants (such as forcing them to fight the Lich King), so like before it is smoke and mirrors, her appearing to do something nice but actually has a darker meaning to it.
The Blood Elves have benefitted more from the Draenei than the Forsaken in TBC.
Everything leads to her surviving for longer and has always been the case. Oh wow look she helped the Blood Elves how nice oh wait she is threatening them to fight a war they cannot. Oh the Horde will gain massively from this new faction war oh wait nvm she got triggered, commited genocide and now wants the Horde to be wiped out rather than surrender because surrendering would mean she would die.
Probably that every time you can argue someone has âgainedâ something from her it has always been used in some way to help her more. Most benefits of Sylvanas are extremely short-term benefits with long-term consequences. For example forcing the Blood Elves to fight in a war again.
And the job example is just a stretch to make your main point stronger because any other example in game would be too weak. So you have decided to bring something which can be considered similar to what we are discussing on the surface but are completely different when you take a moment to look deeper.
And cheers for arguing this as well Zakkaru, it is nice to see not all Horde players are defending Sylvanas on her âprotecting the Hordeâ bs.
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Not really. Without Forsaken forces = no foothold in the Ghostlands.
Aka getting overrun by the Scourge eventually and losing the fragile positions from pre wotlk eventually.
and one of the most touching songs in all of WoW, her being rude, was hiding a facade. That was pre all the Cataclysm crap so it was easier to like her back on those days.
Debatable, overrunning Ghostlands most likely but not Eversong Woods. She defend one piece of land, the Draenei saved their entire people from starving because they couldnât move past it.
It was her being an assh* le to the player character, it can be touching or what not, but that doesnât take away from the fact that she told you to p*ss off.
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Given i found this post interesting, but didnât have time to reply to it sooner (mingled as i was with other people and stuff outside the forum), iâll leave some notes regarding it:
Could it be that Blizzard intends to market this stuff as just as shocking or unnerving as Sylvanas actions are marketed for the Alliance? I agree that portrayal is important, but usually people tend to take a skewed view over some event, and use said portrayal to define âNow this is how everybody should feel about itâ.
Maybe as Horde, they are supposed to feel as shocked or repulsed by these actions as the Alliance should with Sylvanas or whatever any other Horde leader does.
Those are the sort of acts that we are talking about. You donât see any of it as Horde.
But, you do so a troll used as a target dummy, an orc slave and some HM prisoner in Boralus.
I agree on that. But who exactly decides if we are to be villains or heroes? The biased imagery showed by the Alliance questing or the Horde one?.
And that leads me to the final statement:
Do you really think they are setting up Horde players to feel bad about Sylvanas? Yeah, some players should, but Blizzard isnât exactly subtle.
They wouldnât have given her any redeemable speech or demeanour if they wanted her to be felt as a villain for Horde players (the ones that matter when judging how certain character is portrayed, as theyâd obviously paint even the mildest Horde leader as villain for their enemies).
And they kind of did, both in the novella, and in place like Lordaeron.
Regarding Tyrande, and because iâm tired of going offtopic with Sylvanas everytime, maybe what Blizzard is aiming at here is at making her be more âvillanisedâ from the Horde perspective.
But contrary to what i think it wouldâve happened if Sylvanas was the one that had been given said scenario, i donât see that many people arguing for her to be treated as an standardised villain for both faction. Even if its certainly one for the Horde.
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I didnât say they shouldnât expect it coming. I said that they shouldnât think that they HAD it coming.
As in allowing their enemies to upgrade their weaponry and lower their heads while they punish them repeatedly.
Maybe the fault here is the inability to think that Sylvanas goals might be something someone could relate with. When youâve been sold for so long the villain side of her from an Alliance perspective, its hard to think that maybe when she wants âHer people to surviveâ she is sharing the exact same feeling that Tyrande could have when she says that she wants her people to survive.
Hard to acknowledge, i get it. But after spending some time playing Horde, you start seeing undead simply as another race with as many rights as any other living one.
The goals werenât inherently evil. As she herself says in Before the Storm, she did so to prevent the undead from rotting and dying. Which, from her point of view (and many other Forsaken), was indeed a worthy goal.
It goes back to what i said, and the fact that the goal per se, didnât seem as evil. It was marketed as a mean to save the Forsaken from wasting away and dying.
Maybe some disagree. And bear in mind that Sylvanas goals in Stormheim (as described in Before the Storm) werenât about using the Valkyr to create more Forsaken, it was about preserving the existing ones in a way similar as she had already done with Nathanos.
Are you of the opinion that Mechazod, Algalon, or even Ymiron were right? Cursed beings have no right to exist? What about the poor souls that want a second chance (Like Zelling), and embrace undeath as a blessing?
I canât speak from a Horde player perspective. I am biased. Doubly so, since I actually like Saurfang. But I do think she is set up as a villain for the Alliance and that she is pretty much designed to split the Horde playerbase in the middle, with all of them acknowledging that they donât feel good about their morality.
The only way we saw to prevent rotting and dying was in the Nathanos story and involved not only a Valâkyrs power, but a human sacrifice, or am I missing something? That seems inherently evil to me - if you arenât suggesting that the sacrifices would be volunteers?
They have no right to spread their curse. As you noticed, I assumed her goal was to create more undead.
And the curse of flesh didnât just give its victims the ability to suffer, it also gave them joy and all the positive emotions. Which are weakened by undeath.
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I donât wanna punish anyone. Repeating Teldrassil is not justice, its another atrocity. I certainly do not believe that someone should pay for someone elseâs crimes.
I remember the Undead being such a race. I remember collecting bat-fur to keep a dying woman warm. I remember a plethora of motives, which can be perceived as both good and bad.
I remember Agamand Mills, Gunther Arcanus, Forsaken being something else then âdeath to the livingâ.
I donât even have anything against them keeping Lordaeron in its entirety, they are its people.
But I simply can not stomach the new warlike position Sylvanas has been on since Cataclysm which repeatedly ends in her butchering people who do not even want to endanger her own people or herself.
She wants her people to survive, but she is destroying other people. That is enough to destroy any traces of sympathy I had for her character. You are absolutely allowed to destroy the military of your enemies, but the atrocities are unnecessary and unneeded.
Her words just ring hollow. How many lives did she destroy in her quest for immortality and safety which can never be satisfied due to her paranoia?
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I remember these quests <3 As a wee nipper noob starting WoW, I never really appreciated fleshing out the story of walking corpses.
Oh. That andâŠ
âHave you seen my dog?â
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Thatâs because they simply refuse to admit that any and all concepts of morality are nothing but our subjective perception and from a neutral point of view nothing makes any sense at all and we are all just a bunch of slowly rotting meat bags waiting to pass on into god (another abstract concept) knows what deluding ourselves that anything we do matters in the slightest 
⊠Or we just like to argue 
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And they say the Horde are the savages.
Remember this is the good guys!
Sacrificing severed heads and souls.
To obtain greater power.
Slaugthering without mercy.
Unless your name is unique.
Nice to see the Alliance doing questionable actions though.
Without acting all goody two shoes after.
We need more of this, more Alliance pushed to the Brinkâ:innocent:
Hail Greymane.
Also loving the Hijackingforged speaking about purging.
Slowly and steady the mask of rigthousness is falling off and the True nature surges Forth.
Hailgreymane
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Agreed. This is exactly what the Alliance needs.
I miss the times when night elves knew how to be cool and potent without the need to go through a hideous Goth-phase.
Night elves =/= Alliance.