I was refering to your severe lack of empathy 
But Lightforged Forsaken are gonna be good! Also, there are a lot of races that could become playable - Furbolg (a must), Tuskarr, Taunka, Yaungol, Wildhammer Dwarves, Ethereals, Arrakoa (both kinds), perhaps an alien race like Aldrachi? Possibilities are endless as long as developers have CONTINUITY within their hearts.
I was refering to your severe lack of empathy
Itâs an owl, get over it already. Meanwhile we have Malfurion literally burying an orc alive, but I was mean to a fictional owl, so I am CLEARLY the most apathetic person in the world!
Nobody attacks Lord Norwington without to pay for that 10 times or even more.
I forgot how much I like Goblins lol
Shhhh atleast two leaders will be sane :3
So you value the orcâs life but the owl gets bullied?
Jaina was Kirin Tor not Alliance and the Silver Covenant were Alliance alligned just like the Sunreavers were Horde aligned and it was the Horde and he Sunreaver agent as well as Aethasâs intentional incompetance that broke Dalaranâs neutrality and forced Jainaâs hand.
Considering at the start of the expansion she had her 1st city mana nuked,the fact she didânt completely slaughter every horde in Dalaran after finding out about the attack on Teldrassil via Dalaranâs portal network is amazing as it is.
Ohh btw i see your âPurge of Dalaranâ and âMuh Taurajoâ and raise with Southshore-Hillsbrad Fields-Theramore-Gilneas (City and Zone)-Silverwind Refuge-ThalâDarah Grove-Darnassus-Shadowglen-Starbreeze Village-Dolanaar-Bael Modan-Brennadam-LorâDanel 
Iâve completely lost a track on what on are you people. You derailed the main topic that much.
And that ladies and gentlemen and horde barbarians of all sizes is what Earth mortals call a âmic dropâ 
Meh I think that every reasonable Hordie is expecting Sylvanas to finally pay for all the crap she has caused.
Itâs the Zarao that keeps on hoping that there will some twist to save his favourite character and he keeps on looking for any trail to show that she is not just generic villian and trainwreck. He is allowed to do it, but he is no different to Garrosh apologists.
They also wrote tons of text on how he could be different -some ppl to this day believe he was better than just brutish oaf, but in the end they were just deluding themselves.
Garrosh started as worthless moron and died as one.
And I am 97% sure same goes for Sylvanas simply because she painted entire Horde from red to pitch black. Any redeemable qualities that faction had completely disappeared under her or are hard to notice.
This is how she ruined the faction. Horde is grotesque overall even if there are still NPCs and subfactions that overall arenât really evil at itâs core.
At this point I really feel sorry for orcs because atm theyâre just cannon fodder that others kill in order to feel heroic while orcs donât even have anymore any leading figure, theâre just following Sylvanas orders and we donât even know what is their stance on all of that.
Yes, orcs like to fights and braw and such, but orcs also have some prinicples and morality, theyâre not Tolkienesque brainless angry mob.
Iâm all for reasonable war, but this is just ridiculous. And we have Sylvanas to thank that for. Iâd chop off her head myself.
If you really think this is the case, then you really have no f*cking idea of what I said or even didnât bother reading it.
And for someone that constantly argued about the disservice they made with their favourite race, you do seem more than happy with Blizzard doing it with something others like.
Itâs very annoying reading stuff like this.
And specially when you pin random bad narrative at some other character feet simply out of spite because you feel like Blizzard is making her âstealâ the spot of your favourite choice for the story.
Blizzard are the ones making this narrative, not Sylvanas. And saying that Forsaken players or any other player, should put up with their iconic character dragged into the mud and killed, because you donât like it, is beyond selfish and hypocritical when coming from someone that constantly argued how bad they treated his favourite race for killing their leader.
Both collectives declared acting in the Alliance name.
Good to know that any perceived act of aggression serves as an excuse to carry out whatever retaliation you deem fit. Keep that it mind next time the Horde eats some babies.
Iâd clap, but I fail to see how any of that has to do with arguing about the statement of âthe Alliance never kills or tortures civiliansâ.
The least you could do if you are to self insert yourself into someone elseâs conversation, is to check what the topic (or whatever premise is being argued upon) is about.
Oi, chill I didnât intend to offend you, but speaking about racial treatment I fail to see how maintaining entire forsaken faction as cult of one person is any favorable treatment. I didnât see you complain how Belmont - one of those reasonable forsaken got reduced to âBlight! Blight! Blight! Kill! Kill! Kill!â
I was often saying that shift in Forsaken ranks shoulâve happen after WotLK. But since Cata theyâre developed as next scourge.
I was just asking you if it didnât crossed your mind that it could be your perception of Sylvanas the one that is idealised?
She might be over the top recently but her main traits remain the same. So Iâm asking honest question, did you honestly think that when having Sylvanas âDeploy the plague!â in Horde and Anduin âLet us all have peace!â could show any other story than Horde is evil and Alliance good.
No I wrote plenty of times that I was annoyed that they picked her of all people, person that didnât do anything of worthy for the Horde to be itâs face, and writing Horde again as the villanish nation instead of actually making it morally grey, that they have itâs interests, that they have itâs own politics but they donât go over the top with it. I wrote plenty of scenarios how it couldâve been handled in reasonable way. And why what weâve got now is ridiculous and sadly it was obvious that it will end like this the moment they made her âWarchiefâ.
I am aware of it, but the voice acting, the actions of character (since Wotlk) the narrative and that she is put on seat of power over entire faction over lose reasoning makes me despise her as a character (while previously I just didnât care and couldnât be bothered). She shouldâve died at the end of WotLK and for a new Forsaken to emerge. At least she wouldâve died as shady but tragic character.
So all of those stormwind troops moving around through Dalaran during the purge was just in my imagination perhaps. Good to know Kirin Tor are still lying hypocrites just like garithos.
I fail to see this âcultâ mentality beyond usual and logical loyalty. The Forsaken cast is wider than many other playable races, and their character have all defining traits that make them unique. Even the common traits arenât as accentuated as the âglorifyingâ or âcultâ Draenei, Worgen, Gnomes, or Night elves have regarding their leaders. Name me a single relevant trait that marks a difference between the current depictions of Crowley and Greymane. Or to give you a closer example, how do you feel Zandalari think about their leader?
Belmont was always ruthless and unforgiving. He is the one willing to plague the whole Shadowfang Keep to flush Godfrey out.
No, they are not. This is the defining quest that summarised their approach:
Very valid. Agreeable. Relatable and engaging.
Again, you donât seem to get my point: I know who Sylvanas is.
But I donât want her dead or gone for being exactly as she was written to be and for symbolising a whole playable mindset such as the Forsaken one.
Deciding NOW that suddenly the RAS, the Plague, the schemes, or the wickedness have nothing to do with what the Forsaken are, is disingenuous. And dishonest.
And Sylvanas (And Nathanos, and Faranell,âŠ) represent that.
And itâs very, very offensive, to read that because I donât want the story to alienate or punish a playable race for behaving as they were written to, I somehow become some Sylvanas fanboy to be referred in those terms.
Im a troll fan. And I have to say that up until MoP, she did more for the Horde than VolâJin.
He may have founded it, but she brought in the Blood elves, shouldered the bulk of the burden in the fight against Arthas, and then expanded singlehandedly the Horde presence all over north EK.
Blame Blizzard, not Sylvanas.
And because you donât like her, she should be killed? What about the players that do like her?
Do you realise that it was probably because of people that think like you, that Voljin lost the popularity contest that costed us his character and forced Blizzard to put a more popular candidate?
Or how that mentality turned Garrosh from a brash, inexperienced young orc with potential, into some random cartoon dictator? Only because people didnât like him and couldnât adjust after having Thrall.
This is amazingly selfish. Really.
And I wouldnât take such umbrage if it werenât for the fact that you deemed appropriate dump into some âtrendyâ collective of âHe is just another X apologistâŠâ.
Really, that was really annoying.
What Iâm arguing here is that given the crappy story they are pushing the faction through, the least we could have is a little empathy for the ones that have the story as centrepiece and donât kick their characters into the meat grinder as some scapegoat. Specially if you KNOW how it feels to have the characters you like suffering so to introduce another kind of bad story.
I disagree that she did more for Horde than him. Darkspears were assisting Horde in each campaign not just Northrend one. VolâJin was fighting for Horde and planning each itâs move since he reached Kalimdor. He was the tactical mastermind that worked for Thrall and he was one who was behind many of operations. It was not shown in game but it was written like that a lot.
She didnât move bulk of her powers to Northrend for Horde, she did it for he own vandetta. The Wrathgate and Pit of Saron are proof of that.
VolâJin mightâve not be present in Northrend but his people were.
In Cataclysm she was expanding her own territories.
Sylvanas is villanous since vanilla, they only enhanced it. Blizzard putting villanous character to be face of faction made out of Horde therefore villanous faction.
No I want her killed because I see her as lore blackhole. I donât want to kill characters that I just donât like, itâs the others that has to bend to validate her in position of power. This is the real problem to me.
But I agree that one of the factors is that Iâm simply fed up with her. If she would be silenced at least (so unable to speak) it would be a big bonus to me, so at least I wouldnât have to listend to this artrocious voice acting.
On the whole rest, thank you for elaborating but it looks like we have to agree to disagree.
I still have no direct quote that Sylvanas actively caused the wrathgate since she damaged her own position too much to make sense in the given context. The same problems were discussed outside of the official forums.
But none of it was shown in the explicit way Sylvanas acts were.
Still, those actions did more for the Horde than most of the stuff the Darkspear have been shown doing so far ingame.
And in cataclysm m, she was expanding territories that fell under Horde control. As opposed to being invaded or dealing with their own problems as the Darkspear were doing at that time.
I have no hoy saying this, but Sylvanas has expanded the Horde and given it far more land and resources than most of the rest of Horde leaders combined (only Garrosh matched her).
When was the last time you interacted with her in BfA, or Legion? Who is currently leading the war campaign or the Zuldazar expedition?
Iâve interacted with Baine, Gallywix, Eitrigg, Talanji,âŠI only talked to Sylvanas twice. Once when she sent me to Zuldazar, and the latest one when she picked up Ashvane.
What Blackhole? Most of the caricaturesque villainy weâve seen so far has come from other guys.
She didnât run around Brennadam pulling a gun up to the face of random Horde soldiers to force them into being cruel. She isnât even involved in Darkshore or the goblin activities.
The one and only act, is Teldrassil. The rest? Blizzard doesnât need Sylvanas to turn the Horde stupid evil.
This all seems as if you are looking for a scapegoat out of spite for what happened with Voljin.
And Iâm sorry, but Iâm not willing to give the Forsaken players the same treatment orc players had with Garrosh, or to a lesser extent, what troll players had with Voljin, only because you want a scapegoat for the garbage fire that is current Horde narrative.
But did she really care for any support at that time?
When Arthas was no more she committed suicide.
If she thought that he could have been killed right then and there at the Wrathgate, then why not?
Why should she give a damn that the Horde would kill her later for it? She wanted to die after killing Arthas anyway and such an opportunity might not present itself again!
Didnât workâŠ? That was totally a betrayal from within! They acted sooo muuuch not on my orders!
Just a possibility.
Of course they did not. Putress and Varimathras joined efforts and almost summoned Sargeras. How does this fit with her plans at all? It doesent make any sense.