Underpin Hardmode Is Unacceptable

This boss requires luck to win, plain and simple (or play blood DK where you can just never die)

You can watch a youtube guide if you want, it won’t help you. Those spawns will just land anywhere for no reason at all sometimes, even if you try to position him precisely.

Stand him against the wall? You’ll still get the spawns spread out randomly all over 50% of the time; slightly away from the wall? Same again… It does not matter where you position him, they will sometimes just land all over the place… Yes, even if you leave the delve and try again.

Basically, the factor that spoils this boss is that sufficient bombs and time were not provided to deal with chaotic spawns. This means that you can fail for a reason outside of your control.

So, what limiting factor do the bad spawn locations amount to?

Wasted time.

If they’re all standing together on the correct terrain (where it won’t randomly block your bomb kick) you save a massive amount of time. When you have them spread in three different locations or more, you end up in a compounding snowball that is basically impossible to escape from.

So… Spawns randomly appear all over the place; you run around and deal with them, but by the time they’re dealt with, guess what? He is sending in more goons, but because his positioning is bad due to you having to deal with the spread out goons, you will be dropped right back in the same position that you just dealt with (even with good positioning, it’ll still just send them all over sometimes).

So now you’re back to square one… And on and on it goes. Something that isn’t your fault, that you cannot control, is the reason you may fail the underpin fight.

This is TERRIBLE game design. This is not true difficulty or challenge, because it is a factor completely outside of our control.

You cannot force the enemies to spawn in reasonable locations, and the boss fight has not been designed for you to have time to deal with enemies landing in three or more random locations.

Intelligent and fair design would mean giving your players time to deal with the factor they can’t control; otherwise you have something that is inherently unfair. People do not like unfairness, which is why people enmasse do not like this bossfight.

That you would think to put a limited time mount behind something like this just adds insult to injury. You may as well just have people roll a dice for who gets the mount.

I actually find the fight so disrespectful of the players; that they would shovel this slop to people as if it is a genuine challenge. This is faux difficulty.

Real difficulty means the player made a mistake, and that is why they failed. Fake difficulty is when the game can initiate a loss state without the player having influence over it.

Worse still is that they don’t consider how much worse it is for classes with limited range. Like, my god… Rogues have it so bad here it is ridiculous. Ranged don’t have to worry if the boss is in a bomb radius, so they have a lower mental stack. Meanwhile, if you’re melee, you have to also make sure the boss is away from any bombs before he shields. Another significant layer of difficulty just thrown on top without consideration.

This boss is an embarrassment, and honestly, they need to either remove the time limit on this achievement, or fix the boss and extend the time needed to acquire it. You cannot put limited rewards behind a boss that has unfair difficulty baked into it, and not expect people to feel resentful towards the people who made it.

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Just do a few tries a day, give up rest of the day let it soak in then try again, underpin will just tilt you its so random and so buggy its annoying, i finally did him couple of weeks ago reaching 3k mythic+ rating is easier.

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Seeing the underpin is a goblin working at a casino it fits the theme.
All jokes aside: this is why I dont bother with it this time.

Mobs ain’t a problem, you position them by positioning the boss, so if they spawn random, that’s on you.

The thing that grinds my gears is that Blizz has no idea how to make an encounter difficult. They know how to make it annoying, but not difficult.

Take for example Underpin ??.

You have to position the mobs, avoid $hit on the ground, burst during shield phase, and worst of all, kill the ads by throwing bombs at them, not by dps’ing them yourself.

This is plain bs, even with Interact Key bound to a key, it’s still bs given the fact that I waste time positioning myself in order to kick the bombs.

This whole patch is a joke… we’re talking about a story with Xalatath, void elves, void in general, and we’re in a capital with stoned dwarfs and now with goblins and gnomes…

/rantover

6 Likes

Reading all the attempts on the underpin makes me nostalgic about the mage (rage) tower challenges in legion, half of them were dependent on RNG to succeed and it was the most frustrating crap ever but i powered through them!

Nah, it really isn’t that RNG dependent (the bombs’ spawn and timings are, but not the adds). There are fixed spots the adds can spawn, and it will always be the 5 closest to the boss, and each spot is removed from the pool after one add was spawned there.

Therefore, it can very well happen that some or all of them spawn right across the arena

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I’ve got him to 29% just hard nuking it as a Shadow Priest… I ought to grab drums next time. Sure a Hunter or mobile class can do it with the ilvl, jusy ignoring and avoiding stuff.

My biggest gripe is being unable to see Brann’s potions in all the chaos, and also the tiny directional arrow to punt bombs. Wish Blizz made them more noticeable… the fight is too damn gimmicky with a fair bit of RNG.

Some things you should know about the adds and how they spawn:

  1. They spawn in pre-defined locations. I.e. they have their own slots.
  2. The locations of add spawns depend on which “section” the boss is in when he casts “Signal cronies”.
  3. If a slot is already occupied, the new spawn will shift to the nearest clear slot.
  4. Each slot also, either has a cooldown, or the corpse of an add counts as a slot being occupied. I’m not 100% sure which is more true. Either way, you must move to a new section immediately after killing adds if you want them to spawn together.

Pretty sure its the latter. Cant remember him ever spawning a new crownie ontop of a dead one during ??.

I already explained, they just randomly appear anywhere sometimes regardless of positioning. I specifically explained that several times.

It is a factor outside of your control, and if you think it is in your control you are simply getting very lucky. I have tried doing everything imaginable to get them to spawn in a predictable manner, and they will always deviate most of the time.

Jeml mentioned they take slots, even on a first spawn, they will sometimes be all over the place. So i’m not sure how true that is. People are suggesting there is some sort of bug with the fight regarding the spawns; which seems likely honestly… No doubt it will be sold as a feature though.

Also, I heard tanks only have to kick two bombs to blow them up, which is just… Really unfair for no good reason.

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In that case I must have been “very lucky” during all my attempts on him. Every time he spawned them in narnia the pattern was predictable and it was always, without exception, the result of either me not moving at all or too slow and getting screwed with his cast sequence.

Its also not enough to just move him to the last corpse of the crownies as thats not how he calcualtes the spawn positions. You need to actually kite him quite a bit.

This also never happened to me. I’ve always pulled him towards the entrance and the crownies always spawned there.

No idea. Maybe. Could also be ilvl related who knows. I think I needed at most 3 while trying to kick them so it covers as many crownies as possible.

If hes bugged then the bug must have starting to occur when turbo launched.

isnt this the theme of the new patch?

we even have a slotmachine raid, so it fit´s the thematic

The worst thing about this fight is the leap mechanic, especially when it targets Brann…

The other abilities, well the shield can be easily predicted, first one happens at 80% health and then whenever boss reaches full energy.

Everything else felt completely random at times, as if the boss was just randomly casting what was off cooldown, which is bad.

The little footbombs were also horrible to interact with, even when using interact key, it felt like range at which you can interact with them is incredibly small, they are also really hard to aim when you are supposed to dodge 5 lines, swirlies and perhaps a frontal, they also seem to get stuck on terrain for no reason.

Brann is being absolutely useless in this fight for no reason as well, he will happily focus the cronies which you are supposed to take out with bombs, then he will chill near a taken spawn point, which can result in the boss leaping to him and then spawning cronies half the arena away (thanks Brann!).

It is not easy, gear will also make it easier only to a certain point, but it is doable… it is also horribly frustrating to even try and achieve.

For me, a lot of time the second bomb would leave them at around 5-10%, so it’s either class dependent (had prot pally) or just pure luck.

One last thing, using the “right” curios will probably make or break your run, seems like there is only the option of getting the 3d printer and either grenade or mechasaurs, since everything else just seems to not do anything at all on this encounter.

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They would rather smack their player base with overtuned content, then wonder why people lose interest and stop playing stuff they either dont have the ilvl for or are frustrated with their overtuning. Can’t wait for Dastardly Duos… shift-delete it please.

Take underpin to new corner each time is what i did on the day i finally defeated him, ignoring the adds more or less at the end because it was not worth risking kill for as he was about 20% already, ended up wiping around 50% bunch of times to before i just always lacked dps to burst he’s bubble.

Still much easier than Zekvir. Now, with a really high item level, he should be killed very quickly.

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No offense but… DKs are playing a different game.

One of the most annoying things about this fight is the class disparity. 99% of people will just complete it on the easiest classes.

I’d say the worst roles for this particular fight are going to be low DoT melee dps classes.

Three bombs need to be kicked, and you have to make sure he isn’t in range of a bomb when he puts up his shield; and you die easily to everything… Finally, you can’t stay away from him when dealing dps during his shield phase due to the lack of high damage DoT.

It just asks for an extremely large amount of RNG to work correctly.

Also… Lol to the person saying it is good that it is RNG, because that is the theme of the season… You’re literally looking for a reason to allow this slop.

The fight sucks and often feels stupid, but he is right. You can get very close to ilvl 684 now with reasonable effort. At that point any spec wil basically just burn him down.

Agree on rng spawn, plain stupid.

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I did Zek (??) within 10 attempts… Underpin is hell of a lot more frustrating due to how gimmicky it is alongside RNG nonsense with adds and bomb placements.

Plus it’s pretty hard to see where Brann’s potions are, and in all likelihood are on the opposite side of the Arena.