Very true. i agree.
no, we’re still at 6+. yes WoD had a great story and a lot of nice things, and yes legion is very good (wouldn’t say perfect lol) but both planted the seeds for where we stand now. i dont think anyone with a straight face can say wow’s problems ONLY started in BfA. its a corrosive problem, with each issue weakening the framework for the future.
i just named some of the biggest that 10’s, probably 100’s of thousands of players believed them an issue. just because you may be one of the minority who liked said feature, doesn’t mean it was not liked by many. and it is subjective. if the mission tables didn’t give ANY gold, would they have been anywhere as lucrative? dont get me wrong, having a bit of gold for once was nice, but it created issues. and with legendaries, wasn’t bad luck protection put in a lot later? or at least buffed a lot later so the “protection” could now actually be seen. its no good praising blizz for something that should never have been the case in the first place. take essences. we TOLD them in legion that not making such things accountbound (artifact weapons/ap) messed with alts. but no, essences were character bound until changed a patch (or 2?) later. thats a patch (or 2?) too late imo.
i admit i am surprised then! it does make me wonder why you stuck with wow so long if legion was the type of gameplay you like, cause the early years of wow were nothing like legion.
i would venture to say you are in the small minotiry then and as such a show of why you look at wow the way you do? while some people may not think TBC was the best expansion, it would be a contender. i dont think i’ve EVER seen someone (till now!) actually put it as a contender for worst!
but some of those people have major pull, like Ion.
Well, I suppose we just differ on what we think is bad content then.
Because I certainly CAN say that with a straight face.
Of the millions of total players. It really doesn’t mean much.
You don’t know numbers, so you are assuming here. Don’t assume.
Yes, of course it is.
No, of course not, but they DID. So resorting to ‘what ifs’ doesn’t do any good.
It was there from the start, but yeah they buffed it because greedy, impatient people whined. 
But that’s the thing; I DO think it should have been the case.
I liked it just the way it was at launch of Legion.
I took a several year break near the end of wotlk, because I was just bored with their raid-or-die ways. Years later I returned and found a game where I had loads more to do. 
(also; I DID raid in vanilla and basically retired from that sort of gameplay in TBC and onward. I did help out my guild back then from time to time if they really needed someone, but I just no longer enjoyed raiding).
You don’t know that. Don’t assume.
I did. Check out some of those kinds of threads that pop up on the forum. You’ll see plenty of people who put it at or near the bottom of the pile.
Ion doesn’t have any say what punishment an Overwatch player gets for protesting. Ion doesn’t have any say what the next mobile game is going to be. etc…
Ion is in charge of World of Warcraft.
How is that an opinion?..am I suppose to say no you don’t like it?
The Covenant System is better than…
That’s an opinion 
well, i guess that is very true because i am the opposite of many of the positions you’re taking. although ironically enough, not on covenants? though by now i actually if you like them or not xD
100,000 out of 1M is quite a chunk. and while we dont have exact figures anymore, it is commonly believed to be only about 4.5M~ compared to earlier expansions, with EU & NA only making up about 2-2.5M of that. so if that is the case, it does matter tbh. and im assuming because blizz wont release relevant data anymore, but my assumptions are not based on thin air, they come from A) sites that try to guess sub numbers based on various factors, and B) the amount of threads, replies, youtube videos etc where people say that such aspects of the game were not nice.
well, its not a “what if” if you just said “of course not” 
but i said that they contributed to gold inflation because they did. im pretty sure blizz have even said they were an issue, which is why BFA tables give no gold in comparrison. also, its led to issues where items are put out of most players reach, either though players selling things above their natural worth, or blizz making items (lots of mounts) that most people will never see, esp now they are removing some of them! (longboi).
if it was there from the start, it wasn’t noticeable by the people who complained about it. but the problem was, that on top of low drop rate, there was a high chance you got a lego that was far from best. normally this shouldn’t matter too much, but some legos were just so powerful that not having them was a major nerf to your characters potential. also, and this is my own personal opinion, i think there were too many legos. i know some were shared across classes, but didn’t each class have like a dozen~ they could learn? it sorta takes away from the concept of legendary.
if you do, then you are correct, blizz should be praised when they get something right. but they had the data on hand (artifact weapons) to know that HoA & azerite would annoy many players. it never should have been implemented in the way it was, and thus need it to be fixed.
careful there, i can say exactly the same thing however, i can point to many threads and pages to back up my assumption that people were not happy with the system. but again, the fault is not mine or yours for assuming, it is blizz for again not releasing data, and again not thinking ahead and listening to players during alpha/beta.
i’ll have to look at them then, because like i said, even if its not their best, i only see praise for TBC. ALSO, like how your answers led me to believe you were a newer player, i wonder how many that put TBC near the bottom as you say, are actually newer players and never played it when current. playing the expansion now, and playing it when it was current are totally different things.
i, and many other wow players dont care about overwatch or moblie games though? (i actually DON’T have a phone xD)
exactly my point. Ion is in charge of WoW, but he always looks like he doesn’t care about the game, and is bored/uninterested, and his actions in choosing the path the game is taking (that many of us dont like) also bolsters this conclusion.
but in the end on topic. i thought people were excited about covenants, as most people ive seen talk about them praise them, and the only concern (apart from being able to collect all the transmog) is are people going to be funneled into a particular covenant because its the “best”.
I like them.
That second one doesn’t mean much. That’s a vocal minority.
And it didn’t matter too much then either. Sure, some people were (and still are) horribly elitist when it comes to group making, but that’s not the game’s fault. Those people are just horrible people.
Again; just a vocal minority.
Then you’re not paying attention.
Well… they’re both bad experiences imo. I’ve done both.
Yeah, but my reply, that you responded to, was to:
‘Blizzard as a company’ means other things than just WoW.
So you now turning that around is a bit weird.
Yeah I am excited for them and I’m one of those people who don’t care about the abilities because I will play what I like, not what others say is ‘best’.
good. at least we agree on something.
if recent times have shown us anything, dont presume % of people who agree or disagree on a subject unless you have numbers to prove it. i see more more people complaining about those issues in legion than defending it. many people put up with it rather than like it. i put up with it. i didn’t really contribute to any thread in legion about the points i raised above i believe.
yes some people are horrible people, and i do wonder how they survive in the real world, BUT not everyone is. some people just want a smooth run, and as such, certain classes will ALWAYS go to the front of the line because blizzard doesn’t balance them well. i understand perfect balance is a myth, but the difference between for example the top dps spec, and bottom dps spec in most raid tiers is a lot.
no, i just didn’t see them cause the ones i did see, didn’t have it at the bottom. must i look through a million answers to find that ONE answer that proves the opposite of what the other 999,999 say?
when current, thats your opinion, when not current you are right.
yes, but blizzard also makes wow. i dont get what you’re trying to say on this one :\
look i agree with your point of principle, an i think the game should try to be balanced as much as is reasonably possible to make that playstyle the norm, but the fact is, that if blizzard makes some extremely weak in comparison, the fun factor will just evaporate. person A in covenant A will kill mobs in 2 hits cause of OP power. person B in covenant B will take 15 hits to kill a mob cause it is weak. person B may have more fun at the start cause they like that covenant, but the drag over time will eventually effect them through attrition. so at the end of it all, person B will have lost the fun factor, while person A either likes being able to get stuff done or is not effected either way.
That is basically always the case with any issue.
If people are fine with something; they’re playing. Not coming to the forums to complain. So that fact alone will always give a skewed view of things.
They’re both my opinion. You just agree with the 2nd one. 
Well, with how you worded that, I took that as meaning the bad press stuff Blizzard has been getting for a while; the Blitzchung scandal, the mobile Diablo stuff etc… So; stuff not related to WoW.
Yeah, I agree.
And I’m not saying: ‘don’t balance the covenant abilities’, of course they should be as balanced as they can be. But many people have been pre-emptively asking for their removal and that is something I really don’t agree with.
Well of course you like it. There’s always gonna be someone who’s a contrarian and likes things by default. Even nazzis had a huge following, doesn’t mean they were right.
TL:DR: Covenant abilities suck and ruin gameplay by giving classes “borrowed” power, which is an inherently difficult thing to balance and leads to all kinds of downsides like farming, grinding, alt unfriendliness, unbalance, broken classes and so much more.
It doesn’t affect you, because you focus more on pet battles and doing world quests
Or they simply enjoy different things than you?
Wow, did you really bloody use that for reference?
Citation needed.
By 9.3 all the abilities will be on a vendor.
The problem isn’t really whether or not there is a best one but whether or not there is a dominant one. And giving a teleport to players, especially low mobility classes, as an overarching covenant ability is insane.
Just how much are you going to bet that Rio will include what covenant you are and thereby excluding people who didn’t pick the teleport covenant from many many m+ grps simply because they chose the fun ability over the one that’s stupendously useful in m+?
just to clarify: i like the idea of the covenants. But they NEED to be properly balanced. If one of them is technically 5% better than another one, i honestly wouldn’t give a crap. I play prot pally. I wanna throw 5 bouncy frisbees. I will throw 5 bouncy frisbees. Because YES. But the only reason i can do that is because I don’t push M+. I do my weekly chest and that’s it. If i were to push keys however, there would be no way around a teleport, simply for the skips and usefulness of it.
As a mythic raider that used to play ret (Really bad mobility spec) and now a warlock (One of the slowest class in the game) yeah, that teleport seems wayyy to strong for the content I am aiming.
It’s sad to say that maybe the only solution would be to disable any covenent ability in raids/dungeons/arenas…
I like the covenant system. Im a casual raider never going above normals and i dont give a rats a about min maxing.
But i hate the covenant ability system. I like kyrians the most and night fae are my least favourite. However the myrian ability for most of my classes feel meh, and the owl boi sucks. Meanwhile night faes abilites look amazing amd seem incredibly fun to use.
This is my issue with the system. If i go with the covenant i like im actively making my gsmeplay experience worse for flavour and aesthetics
This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.