Umbric in particular pursued the box on what amounts to a treasure map. Nowhere is it stated that anything of dar’khan was used for anything else but going by how some talk about it, every void elf is a Scourge Elf exiled for necromancy and plotting to blow up the sunwell.
When the premise of a statement is fundamentally wrong, it needs a nudge.
Come now, it’s more than a treasure map considering they’re actually ‘research notes’. Umbric and company built upon Dar’khan’s own failings (seeing as he managed to all but gain entry to Telogrus).
It’s almost as though they go against the entire story development arc of TBC; Blood Elves were bitten because of “a means to an end” and “power/might makes right” isn’t necessarily a good course to take and it’s easy to lose yourself to what you’re doing (which Umbric + co ultimately did).
People aren’t wailing because the void elves practicing a void form of necromancy, they’re wailing because despite how the Alliance is depicted in regards to undead there’s not even a side-remark of "maybe you guys should tone it down a bit.
I guarantee if any Horde character did something in this vein, it would become a plot point of “god they’ve lost it!!! Evil!!!” Alas, the Alliance is forever stuck in lawful stupidity and the Horde is just perpetually punching itself in the face.
It’s almost as if exiling people pursuing power to help their people is completely against what blood elves do. Their whole hat is power at any price, looting the world for ever more to restore their glory via the reliquary. The redemption at the sunwell was immediately squandered. Might makes right as the sin’dorei will have justice, death to all who oppose them! Light, Arcane, Fel, Blood Magic, any power but the Void, it seems.
Maybe the Alliance has to hit a breaking point where creating temporary void Aberrations is an acceptable weapon against a relentless Horde that abandoned all pretense of restraint in churning out Undead? Two wrongs don’t make a right, but still…
Nah, just a casual yawn as it’s standard operating procedure at this point.
I wail because if blood elves had any consistency in their characterisation, the disciples of Umbric would freely pursue the study of the Void in the safety of the Ghostlands will full state support to destroy the Alliance by any means and Void elves wouldn’t need to exist.
Pretty sure it isn’t given the whole Kael’thas thing. The Umbric-Kael’thas comparison is even explicitly made by Umbric himself.
What is your role in this campaign, magister?
As a magister, my duty has always been to Silvermoon and its people. When the mad Arthas devastated our lands, I knew we must harness every power available to ensure our survival.
Prince Kael’thas proposed one way. I sought out another.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Void_Elves_Stand_Ready
Blood Elves under Lor’themar aren’t power at any cost. They demonstrated this once when they turned their back on Kael and the Legion, and a second time with Umbric.
I mean, their ‘exile’ didn’t even kick them out of BElf lands, just told them to get out of Eversong. While the timeline isn’t exactly clear, it seems to be implied that Umbric+co. spent years in the Ghostlands before breaking into Telogrus shortly before Alleria arrived.
I honestly don’t know where you get this from, the general tone of Blood Elves has been a far cry from what you and TBC has been depicting. From the calming of the Blood Knights to Rommath, of all characters, being incredibly subdued - even during the Purge of Dalaran.
And even Fel was never accepted, demons were never accepted; Illidan was kept a secret and short of structural integrity and the warlocks of Silvermoon. There was little other usage of fel.
The Reliquary’s primary goal is as follows:
You see, there are ancient, powerful relics found throughout this world that I plan to use to free my people from their addiction and unify them again as the proud, indomitable race we once were.
Hell, they store the dangerous artifacts they gather in a vault tethered to another dimension.
“But anima golems!”
Nah, that was Lor’themar.
Of all the races, Blood Elves have been remarkably consistent albeit in a direction people didn’t want them to go in.
Just a continuous trundling along of changing without actually changing, the pursuit of power being always at heart as the one thing to hold off the doom of their world. Saved by Velen and M’uru’s sacrifice, they proceed as if nothing happened as the bad elves were all kael’thas’ lot.
Warlocks have their sanctum, studying like any common Mage. What wasn’t accepted was dissent, with no sign of changing even now.
Out of sight, out of mind, whipping slaves in the sweatshop or in the gloom of Murder Row. Come WoD, demonologist Aeda Brightdawn fights alongside blood knights.
The pursuit of powerful artefacts to empower the blood elves as a people, regardless of historical significance as they loot titan vaults, mogu palaces, night elf ruins and more besides as the primary antagonist to the explorer’s leauge concerned with unearthing the history of the world and dwarves in particular.
Last seen draining blood from nazmani sacrifices in the swamps of great zandalar. By blood knights, no less.
I don’t consider the Void to be this unimaginable step too far that the noble sin’dorei would balk at and find the exile of Umbric narrative bafflingly counter to their narrative. I’m not fighting you over this. We just have this vastly different view of what blood elves are but such is the unpopular opinion thread.
Umbric’s motivation of “”“helping his people”“” falls entirely flat because Rommath exiled them because of the threat he and his research had on the Sunwell. Last time the Sunwell was corrupted, it started to kill all the high elves on the planet, something Umbric would know given how he lived through it.
It’s not even that he did it to save his people during their dark hour in TBC, as the dialogue with Rommath about their exile dates to after the restoration of Sunwell at which point their nation wasn’t on the brink of collapse which would necessitate “power at any cost to help my people” and even then that power is objectively incompatible with the continued existence of his people.
High/Blood elf lives are dependent on the Sunwell. The Void corrupts the Sunwell, there’s no way around that. Everything Umbric does in the name of helping his people is always, invariably, detrimental to their existence.
Unpopular opinion: Rommath is the clown of Silvermoon for exiling people, splintering an already fading race when they need power (which they already continuously pursue) to win the forever war against their mortal foes. I stand by my assertion that it would be consistent and correct to allow Umbric’s research away from the sunwell for the good of Quel’Thalas.
As is fel, the blood magic with proven mutagenic properties and the freakin’ void priests seen fighting at Domination Point in Krasarang. Rejection of Umbric and pals is inconsistent.
[insert lens flare Ion photo]
And to that I say:
Void corrupts the Sunwell and Rommath was objectively right no matter how you try to cut it =) There is no narrative where Umbric’s exile was unjustified. Umrbic himself admits the was in the wrong.
Also since you love the blood elf fascism meme, go read Under Shadow of the Sun. In it Lor’themar points out that he regrets everything he did in relation to the high elves (exiling them and stamping out dissent) because he couldn’t lead a fractured nation by the time. He has since then, as an act of penance, went back on his decisions he made by the time, including offering the high elves a chance to return back home.
The stamping out dissidence in Silvermoon is very unlikely still going on given the implications of Under Shadow of the Sun and how Silvermoon is still stuck in early TBC.
Do you have any genuine examples?
What? You’re just going on a tangent there. Yes dissent wasn’t tolerated but neither was fel/demons.
"Draining magic from small mana-bearing vermin is a far cry from draining magic from demons.
Most blood elves still live on Azeroth, though. Few of these elves know of Kael’thas’ pact with Illidan, and many would be horrified if they discovered it.
Both quotes are from the old Warcraft Encyclopedia.
There’s also a quote from Micky Neilson (the man who seemed to have been largely in charge of the blood elf story) on twitter saying the majority of blood elves weren’t even aware fel was being used in their nation - I’ll try and find it.
https://twitter.com/mickyneilson/status/433059417437650944?lang=en-gb
Indeed, the basement of a sweatshop where leper gnome slaves and a succubus is foreman. Away from the public and the outrage it would cause.
The Succubus down ‘Murder Row’ only comes out at night, and the street is largely avoided during the day nevermind night: It’s a shady street filled with dodgy people such as Orivinn who was depicted as a low-level drug dealer in Blood of the Highborne.
And one warlock in a military setting =/= flat out acceptance by the populace, context.
Which all goes into a secret vault so other people can’t get their hands on them (which, funnily enough, is what the Reliquary did prior to the Scourge invasion too). Do you have any genuine examples of the Reliquary actively empowering Silvermoon? Are there any examples - beyond a distraught sister - of Reliquary found items being used against Silvermoon’s enemies?
And before you quote Wyrmbane in Vol’dun, he also talks about rumours, not actual intel. Same guy also bombs archaeologists because he thinks it’s fun.
Don’t worry ever sInce Levey got bit by a certain blood elf guild’s GM he/she has been intentionally bias when these discussions inevitably come about ever since.
It’s pretty stale at this point.
crazily vagueposts about the exclusive and elitist blood elf RP elite
Don’t play the objectivity card here as there’s obviously a choice involved in tossing out a chunk of your whole race as opposed to allowing them to continue aiding the nation in such a way that doesn’t endanger the sunwell. Be it from the ghostlands, Undercity or even across the planet in Orgrimmar’s appropriate cleft of shadow, you’ll have both your people and their new power.
It all comes across as foolishness inconsistent with the power pursuits of the sin’dorei people, needlessly hobbling them and taking away a valuable tool that they were already employing.
I’ll bite on the idea that the goodly regent lord might’ve ceased to delete the personalities of dissenters since exile is apparently a thing and Umbric’s lot were apparently grumblers. Now Quel’Thalas is once more clean of impure thoughts!
Not once did I say blood elves were guzzling fel straight from the tap. However, they do not shun warlocks, nor do they exile them, which this whole argument of “detrimental power GTFO” rests upon as Fel feeds on life. Further, blood elves clearly made use of the void in the past. This sudden aversion goes against form. The pursuit of power is a characteristc of blood elves as much as draenei worshiping the Light and crashing spaceships.
Anima blood golems via sunreavers. Other attempts were made, stuff broke. Legion archaeology questing is one example. It’s stated numerous times how a find may be used for sin’dorei supremacy.
I’d consider the reliquary to be a military organisation, actively seeking weapons to break their foes as they state in quest text. Something something Taurajo, something Theramore something legitimate targets…
No, I just disagree about what the blood elf theme is and consider the events leading to the creation of the void elves to be clownishly incompetent and contradictory to my established perception of what blood elves are.
My beef with some elements of the blood elf community has to do with the same OOC political play and tender nerves that plague several other races, in no way affecting how I read the lore of the poor blood elf npcs. I’ve spent my pathos on that subject long ago and nothing I do will change the way that things are.
In closing; Blood (and Void) elf writing is appropriately enough bloody stupid but hey, so’s most of WoW. I’m not arguing with you as people, I’m exasperated to the point of exhaustion at the narrative. So let’s agree to disagree about what makes a proper blood elf and agree that in a sensible world, the blue ones rightfully shouldn’t even exist.
You could say that if not for the fact that he spells out in no uncertain terms that he just wants to do it because it’s fun. Nothing about denying valuable assets or anything.
They were told to stop, and they promptly refused to. What are you going to do with people who refuse to stop doing something that you know for a fact is going to endanger the Sunwell and thus the lives of not only your people, but the high elves in the Alliance too? They didn’t do it for virtue signalling, they did it to stop a species wide extermination.
Corrupting the Sunwell kills all high- and blood elves on the planet. Umbric, Rommath, et al llived through it the last time it happened. The only reason these races exist still is because Kael’thas destroyed the corrupted Sunwell before it could kill all the survivors.
That’s an objective fact. There’s no opinions about it. Umbric can’t serve his people with the Void without endangering their existence.
Limited to a basement in Silvermoon’s equivalent of Downtown Detroit, potential outrage at being allied to a half-demon and disgust towards fel magic all point towards a certain degree of shunning at the very least. Don’t you think? It’s funny, outside of this basement there’s no other visable warlock NPCs in Silvermoon, Eversong or the Ghostlands beyond defunct class trainers. Hell, it’s never explicitly stated what’s within the Burning Crystals despite the “sense of forboding” that comes up at Dath’Remar’s shrine. Not to mention the “tainted magic” at Duskwither spire that elves were trying to purify is alluded to be fel. No explicit answers are given; it all looks like a cover up to hide it. Why hide something that’s not shunned?
Edit: There was heavy opposition to the formation of the Blood Knights too and they were initially -loathed- and mistrusted due to the rumors about them “feeding from some creature from the nether”. Surely you can see how this extends to warlocks?
Again, this is where context comes in and the entire “an ends to a means” storyline comes in. Warlocks were needed to build up the Burning Crystals to ensure their buildings don’t collapse on themselves seeing as the Arcane Sanctums weren’t producing enough. They didn’t have the magic to feed themselves properly never mind do anything else with.
The only thing that’s mentioned as a powerful artifact (and the Reliquary fo after)is the Orb of Scilliax and there’s no mention of using it for Sin’dorei Supremacy. When goblins inadvertently destroy it the shards leftover are simply used for research.
I really do despise how naming and shaming rules necessitate vaugeness to the point of appearing paranoid, inviting mockery when one could easily be sitting on a long list of names and offenses for that rainy day when one no longer cares about appearances.
People involved can take a jab here and there, laughing how it’s silly to think this and that, knowing full well the extent of their own guilt and gaslighting the casual observer for years on end, claiming how they’d never do a certain thing, whatever it may be. Not that I’m implying anyone involved in this discussion bears such a strain on their conscience. Unrelated to certain issues, whatever apparent grudge I bear is a feeble thing next to my loathing of hypocrisy.
Please, don’t call me crazy as I’ve not been rude to you, to my knowedge.
He’s a jerk and the reliquary aren’t innocent archaeologists. These are both true statements.
Certainly not exile the whole lot, creating a subfaction of resentful souls that might be willing to strike back in some grandiose fashion related to their selectively banned studies.
And yet, warlocks aren’t banished despite playing with hellfire and actively drawing demons into the world. Demons who, for reference, were ultimately responsible for the scourge which neary exterminated their people.
My point stands firm and proud; exiling Umbric and whatever number of others (squad, thousands?!) goes against what we know to be blood elf stylings. To do so is foolish, potentially creating a new enemy (which it did) and hypocritical in the absurd extreme with what is already permissible, including void priests used as lately as the pandaria campaign scant years ago.
Now, maybe if it were stated that all the shadowspec priests were tossed with Umbric we’d have both a sliver of consistency and a workable date of exile but such is irrelevant to the story…
But they’ve already undermined your authority as a ruler. You now have a faction of researchers who don’t care for your authority or the rule of law such as it is, and they wield magics that will destroy your livelihood if left unchecked, given how the person in charge of this faction is demonstrating gross negligence. An important thing to note is that by the time they began, no-one has ever survived the Void canonically with Alleria being the first mortal to succeed.
What do you do in this situation as a wise leader tasked with making the hard choices? Executing them makes them martyrs, and elves in general don’t seem to be fond of that – time and time again they opt for exile as their harshest form of punishment due to their communal way of life. Very, very few individuals are actually executed as a punishment.
Without killing them or exiling them, what other choice do you have to stop that sort of extremism and the devastating consequences of their research?
It’s a grey area and I tried asking over twitter, but Loreology closed down his account again. My assumption, given how new shadow priest lore is that it was all Void along and they especially give in to the Void’s insanity, the shadow priests have been subsequently escorted out with Umbric’s lot. But that’s conjecture.