Spells, talents, resource systems, stats… Everything. Then take it from here and see what should be changed. I am aware that some abilities could be problematic (huhuhu symbiosis), and that there might’ve been too many CC in PvP (not my opinion, but the general public seems to think so).
But taking the game back to that moment and then see what few spells should be taken away and what spells should be tuned down a bit would be so much easier and more effective than taking the game as it stands now, and looking back for missing spells.
“we’re eager to hear whether we’ve gone too far with the unpruning”
This is early alpha, but this statement exists. And currently, no, you’ve not gone far enough at all. Getting Anti-Magic Zone baseline barely changes anything, and it certainly won’t bring back the depth of rotation MoP had.
Because spells aren’t the only things that have been pruned: Rotations have generally been simplified, while at the same time made more chaotic (random procs). I want more control over my rotation, and I want class depth to come from the way I execute my spells, rather than when I get a random proc that gives me free energy/spell/instant cast.
Edit:I think MoP’s success in terms of class design comes, amongst others things, from the fact that all specs of the same class shared the exact same talent tree. This allowed the devs to do what they want with every spec, because it ensured that a central theme would be respected.
Also, each spec felt complete because they couldn’t put mandatory spells in the talent tree, since these had to fit every spec. So each spec had all their necessary spells baseline, and talents were an added toolkit.
We don’t need class-wide spells. We need class-wide talents.
For the last few expansions, I’ve advocated the idea that we all wake up at the foot of the Dark Portal, realise that we never went through to Draenor, but it was all a dream, sent to us as a warning.
Then we start the expansion after Mists, with both us and the devs knowing the horrors to be avoided.
The reason it felt homogenized, is because every class could do everything, they just made the ability thematically fit every class.
MoP design wasnt amazing at all, litterally everyone could do everything… which u could argue “well thats balanced… classes are capable of the same stuff”… no its boring, having every class in the game At the same Capability, Makes every class Replaceable.
MoP was a Macro Haven, of people condensing their abilities down to 4 or 5 macros. Litterally every guide site Advocated large usuage of Macros to condense the rotation down for players.
Whats the point in a 40 button rotation… if ur turning it into a 5 button cinematic of abilities.
The Reason MoP feels so good. is because its the Last time we werent on a 4 button rotation… but that doesnt mean we should just duplicate MoP, It means blizzard needs to look at the pros and cons of both conditions of the game. and Introduce both… without the problems both of these eras of WoW brought.
We dont want temporary Power we lose every expansion.
we Dont want RNG Infested DPS Gains
and More control over our DPS.
but we also
Dont want classes to feel like they can do everything and anything.
Dont want Classes to feel homogenized.
and Allow for Creatitivity in the strengths and weaknesses of every class. to rebuild the Desire and Demand of specific classes in specific Content (other then “their DPS Is Super high lets take that”)
Classes can have their Strengths and weaknesses, their unique Utility and Different Pros to bringing into groups.
Without being forced onto 4 button rotations.
and it shouldnt come at the gutting of classes utility either.
theres No Reason “bring the class not the player” shouldnt exist. you should feel the need to bring specific classes to build a composition. but a variety of compositions needs to exist.
I don’t think you understand what you’re talking about.
The whole idea behind procs is to break monotony, they were mainly added as a response to generic 11123-repeat type of rotations and managing those procs actually added depth, with things like Alter Time everyone likes to bring up.
Taking that away and going back to a rotation you can macro in a /castsequence won’t make your class more complex. In classic you have 100% control over your rotation, but that’s not a metric of how good that rotation is.
Cata already went far into class homogenization. But Wotlk was not fun in term of gameplay. FCFS for Retribution Paladin which was Judgement > Divine Storm > crusader strike > Hammer of wrath > consecration > exorcism (IF art of war procs, else…meh) > Holy wrath.
For Fury warrior, it was worse : Heroic strike > Bloodthirst > whirlwind > slam (IF Procs, otherwise it’s not instant cast and feels meh) > heroic throw > Execute. The only thing I had to care was : When using Recklessness I really had to follow said roation because Whirlwind would consume 2 charges of recklessness.
Now, comparing to MoP retribution paladin :
Build HP using priority : Hammer of Wrath > Crusader strike > Judgment > exorcism. Replace Crusader strike with Hammer of the righteouss if more than 2 targets.
Spend HP : Maintain inquisition > Templar’s verdict (Single Target) Divine storm if 2 or more.
Seals dance between truth for single target and right for 4.
Offensive cooldowns:
-Avenging Wrath
-Guardian of Ancient knights
In terms of utility :
-Raid cooldown (Reducing Magic damages and avoid mates being silenced)
-On demand stun
-Single target heals
-External cooldown one : Lay on hands
-Externa cooldwond two : Hand of Sacrifice
Regarding fury warrior :
Outside of Colossus smash :
Heroic strike to bump rage > bloodthirst on CD > Raging blow if 2 charges > wild strike (if bloodsurge procs) > heroic throw > Battle shout
Inside of Colossus smash :
Spam Heroic strike > Raging blow(2charges) > bloodthirst > Raging blow (1 charge) > Wild strike as a filer.
Now enters Execute :
Outside of Colossus Smash : Replace Heroic strike with Execute, just to avoid rage overcapping.
Inside : Replace Heroic Strike with Execute, Bloodthirst should only be used if below 30 rage, Raging blow shifts as filer.
Aoe rotation : Replace wild strike with whirlwind if there are no Bloodsurge procs.
Replace Heroic strike with Cleave.
Cast whirlwind 3 times if facing 4 targets to apply raging blow to 4 targets.
A few random procs are nice, they break the rotation and mix it up a little bit. But I find that there are too many of them in the current game. Between the cooldown resets procs, the resource generation procs, the diverse stats procs, and the “empowers X ability” procs, I feel like I’m not in control of the character.
A lot of specs relly almost entirely on procs, and it wouldn’t be nearly as much of a problem if the base rotation couldn’t be summed up by “press X when you have enough resource, press Y to refresh DoT, press Z when nothing else is available”.
MoP class design was peak WoW. The skill cap was so damn high that a good player could literally run into an entire enemy team, kill 2 and survive without too much issues in a bg.
Pisses me off that it’s never going to be like this again. Looking forward to the day this game finally dies so private servers can be bigger project that are actually worth playing on.
nobody wanted to relive mop pve nor pvp for previous years nobody will in future and sub numbers speak for themself during mop droppoff. sure must have been best gameplay ?!
Yeah the proc problem you’re describing is related to the corruption system, which is going away in shadowlands, not the classes as a whole and there is nothing in MoP notably without procs. Again your posts gave me the impression that you’re just mashing together popular talking points, without correlation between them.
And yes, some classes are very proc dependent (like Frost Mage) amd others have no procs at all (like desto lock), but that’s not really a bad thing. It’s better to have different playstyles for each spec than have the same thing with different flavors of magic schools.
For some reason MoP has been associated with this blown-out-of-proportions myth and i think this is appealing to a lot of players who think of themselves as really great players and find it convenient to think that their average performance is because blizzard is “capping their skill”.
Yeah i think most people who played in MoP (and were very geared) probably were at least one time in the position to melt 2 players in a matter of seconds, as an affliction lock with end-game gear it happened quite frequently, but it’s worth remembering that balance was a mess (resillience started at like 30% and was buffed several times to almost 80%) and things like this happened in previous expansions aswell. I mean even in vanilla you had warriors in T3 gear one-shotting groups of players left and right, yet nobody is remembering that era as “high skill cap”.
I would understand if Warriors are out of there mind when someone says MoP war is the same as nowdays.I mained one in MoP and the icyveins Fury warrior guide page combined back then 10 specks it was out of this world you had to take into account;titans grip,smf,offhand,mainhand,what set peaces to use and yada yada.
But if i would look at my BM hunter nothing changed since mop on him.One could argue the same with retri pala we lost maybe GoAK and gained wake of ashes but the class feels the same.You still hunt for DS procks while you are using HP builders and dump it with TS and DS.