The analogy was just for fun. You can very very easily achieve maximum rewards in M+ with minimal effort.
Maybe the equivalent of a brisk walk?
I wish i had mythic raid gear, i don’t have to the will do mythic raiding. I just don’t care. I just think it’s wrong raid gear is better for M+ than M+ gear is.
However, i don’t want a free mythic clear or to be given their gear. That’s ridiculous. WoW has always had gear gated behind the hardest content…literally since release.
then have fun, you don’t need all the gear and you don’t need to do the hardest content if it is beyond you. (not specifically you, i mean in general terms)
I did not read this from OPs original post. But can people please stop saying this? So a healer is expected to do “meaningful DPS” ? PLEASE… What are we playing? SL or what?
Here is the deal with “doing something” every GCD: DDs do it. And tanks do it too.
Because unlike Healing, DPS (and DTPS) dont have a cap. There is no such a thing as “over-dpsing”. Every extra button they press, will benefit the group 100% of the times. The question for them is, what benefits more, button A or button B.
But that concept does not exist for healers. For us “over-healing” exists. And its the situation in which doing an action will produce ZERO benefit. Nothing of value at all. Regardless of if its button A or B. Both will give ZERO benefit.
So. You can do 2 things in the situation in which healers “over-heal”. Eather you transform that over-healing into something usefull. Like a shield, or more mana, or it bounces to someone else… ect…
OR… you ask the healer to stop healing and do something else that does benefit. Like DPS. Which dosent have a cap.
This “dichotomy” of what to do with “over-healing” has only really been solved for MW and DPriests. For them, there is a feedback between the two. Every other healer is stuck with the old design in which we have to swith to DPSing… Just to “pretend” to do something usefull.
Because lets be trully honest here. 400k DPS is peanuts compared to the total 22M 3DPS+tank can do. It’s barely 4% of the overall. Its so ridiculously inconsequential the only reason I bother at all is to not be bored out of my mind when I am not actually healing something.
And that isn’t always a good thing. It’s spammy. I really couldn’t care less about casting frostbolt as it exists today, and I do enjoy when classes have a finite resource of some kind, but that ship has sailed…
But I have to, because it procs the good stuff.
I’d rather be wanding…
I think it can be a fun dichotomy personally, but the way it’s currently delivered is just… look, if DPS is free, it can’t be very strong because … well, there’s a lot of reasons Icba typing out on my phone, but I’ve seen class designs in WoW’s past where an aggressive healer is serious business, but also runs OOM really fast if the plan doesn’t work out. It’s especially fun in PvP, but I have no doubt it can be fun in PvE as well, and if it isn’t your style just dodge the couple of specs that has these things for decades.
I think the difference is like slow living propaganda - monotonous spamming or intentional activity.
I spend every moment of healing in Classic making decisions. Well, sometimes there is a party that just doesn’t take damage. I could, in theory, spam some low rank spell to pretend activity. But instead I’m observing carefully - how is the damage taken trend, how long will my heals keep ticking, which spells should I use next, what about the other party members. Then I execute my quick sequence and restart. (Sometimes it means I cast offensive spells, not much of a point though.)
I’m rather swinging my staff.
On damage dealers chances are I’m just pressing 111111111.
Or 123123123123123, not much of a difference.
For real, when I was #1 DD in our guild my stuff was 1233233323332333 on repeat.
I enjoy a bit more, like the WLK pally, but that’s mostly just piano as well.
The games are most enjoyed aren’t even about spamming. I was a sniper in CS.
In GW2 there is a lot of dancing around ground abilities. Dodging projectiles.
In D3 you run around and kite.
Complexity and involvement in immersion.
Well that is unfair. All classes have a GCD. Which is 1s. So at most you can play a 60 APM.
To put it into context: The average person types 40 WPM. Which is equivalent to ~ 200 APM. So. An average joe in an office job writes reports and memos at almost 4x the speed at which you play WOW. And that is assuming imperfect typing (aka: 1 keystroke with 1 finger at a time).
I seriously dont like to reduce this game to the least common denominator. YOU might like to wand. But given the “average” statistics I got from https://www.asaporg.com I think a normal person deserves something more than “wanding”.
With that said. It also depends which class. Melee classes that play haste are spammy. Some specs with off GCD abilities play at 90 APM. Others, do not not. Casters in particular. Some play as low as 30 APM. Which is nothing at all.
And healers in particular, even lower still. With some exceptions like MW and RDruid. All others have really slow gameplay.
It has NOTHING to do with absolute numbers of DPS. An aggressive healer is only justified in cases where the DPS he actually does (in absolute numbers) justifies it. Like with the BFA aberration of the “Battle Shaman” doing DD numbers of DPS.
My case has nothing to do with the absolute numbers. Its the fact that for all healer specs, other than 2, DPS gives you no advantage in HPS. Absolutely NOTHING.
Something like this would help a lot:
3 DD cast == 1 instant cast mana free heal. For example.
That allows you to use DPS in order to improve HPS later on in the fight. Giving healers a lot more depth. AND something to do (proactive HPS) when everyone is at full HP.
That’s the point. Back in WotLK, when WoW had it’s peak player numbers, the game was way easier - and thus far more popular. WoW always was this popular becuase it was this easy, this accessible for casuals, families playing together. Nowadays older players (which are reportedly the largest part of the playerbase) get locked out of higher content, which they weren’t in the past - and it was better for the whole game. Addons are one reason why the game has become unnecessarily “hard”.
Its for “administrative” professions. When I used to work for an American Company the administrative support hires all had that certification.
I disagree. STRONGLY.
WotlK was not easier. You had Raids. And NOTHING else.
And the normal raid was not as easy as today. It was equivalent to our current HC raid. And Mythic raid is equivalent to what WotlK HC raid was. Plus you had +10 and +25.
Today you have Delves. Something to do in the open world besides 10 dailies and leveling, you have Dungeons, you have raids (LFG and Normal) that did not exist. Ect…
TWW is 50000 times more casual, and 50000 times more accessible than WotlK ever was.
Was it though? Wasnt it just a minor fraction of the wow population doing raids back then? I dont have numbers, just what i’ve read om the forums over the years. Like original Naxx, how many did that when it was relevant?
Well, then we’ll have to agree to disagree. You could easily PUG Heroic 25 up to maybe the last two bosses; do you want to tell me you can now easily pug mythic raids? Because you can’t.
No, WotLK was way easier. Bosses had less mechanics, slower machanics, mechanics that could be controlled - ensured to “hit” people who knew how to react to them, which is no longer the case, easily causing havoc in pugs where not everybody knows the bosses.
I’ve led several raids aday back then, so don’t try to tell me that’s not how it was.
Hmmm… I think TBC and wotlk felt more meaningful for casuals than retail, but that’s also because the community is different today and many people have optimized the fun out of wow
I think Metagaming and stuff like Boosting hurt the mmo-ecosystem of wow
Also: People who use the argument that wotlk was more popular because it had the most players, are forgetting that there’s a long list of reasons for this.
No game stays on top forever. At some point player numbers will go down, no matter what.
There are many spells off GCD - some have more than others. Guardian Druids are notoriously insane - someone had graphed it some time back and it was at 85.
But that doesn’t tell the whole story. You are also moving, clicking enemies or tab-targeting, and of course WoW has this ridiculously annoying property that there is lag between the casts and in order to ensure you are always casting you can spam. You can also hold the button down now, but I sometimes experience that the game will cast a spell twice for no good reason and then the cast bar will report almost a whole second of latency when I cast the one I actually intended… -_-
When I actually measure the number of keypresses per minute, it’s over 220.
The result is an unreal amount of button mashing - far greater than the actions per minute.
This happens as a direct consequence of the fact that WoW was never intended for you to “ABC” and its engine wasn’t optimised for it. I mean they’ve tried to fix it and done okay I guess, but… not really succeeded imo.
I type too much…
No. Nobody writes that fast when they actually have to consider the content. Once you start actually thinking what you’re typing, the speed goes way down, and that’s a good thing, because if I was doing what I just did in that typing test all day I would be sent to the hospital in half a day.
I agree with you, I don’t know what you thought I was saying?
I think that kind of damage … well, equivalent to a DPS is too much, but equivalent to a tank at the cost of risking your mana pool? I’m fine with that. Gotta make a dangerous choice there.
But some healers want it and some don’t. I think both should be viable but I think we all know that questions like that are resolved at the margins at high levels of play…
Well, there is also just the fact that wow was a new game during wotlk or tbc, so people approached it with a completely different mindset too. That’s also why classic wow today I think looks more like retail from the outside, when I observe player behaviour like boosting/gdkp/metagaming/etc.
Yeah. That’s one of those ‘many reasons’.
But more often than not, they claim ‘it had more subs, so it was better’. Well, I strongly disagree.
Modern WoW to me is much better on average.
But in a mmo your experience as a player is extremely dependent on how the community plays the game too. Maybe Blizzard is approaching this whole issue from the wrong angle. Instead of asking “How can we make the game more casual”, they should be asking “How can we get more casual players to play the endgame, so the community becomes less tryhard”
And they do this by removing gatekeeping entry barriers in my opinion like bloat, addons, etc.
Can’t speak for anyone else, but nothing is going to get me into that type of endgame. So from my point of view, they are currently approaching it from the right angle.
Oh, preaching to the choir.
I’m all for removing addons across the board.
So from my point of view, they are currently approaching it from the right angle.