Upcoming frost /fire buffs

Classes Mage
22

I think frost and fire need raid buffs.
That 3% base to frostbolt is before any multipliers in the tree? So maybe its a tweak they are adjusting slightly to see the results. The buff to ray of frost might make it better than splitting ice on ST and given that you can shatter the whole thing it could be great mini burst for adds and stuff too.

I think they have broken fire by making ignite too strong and aren’t sure how to buff its ST without making it too strong, as it gains secondaries its cleave is going to be very strong, there’s just no mages stacking haste gear to check it out. Fire’s got problems that aren’t easily fixed and Arcane having the same dmg profile is a big one too.

As for m+ the aoe changes for fire are nice and hopefully will make the aoe rotation an option. Fire’s ok in dungeons where it can use its ST combusts well but other dungeons it’s really poor when there’s no mob to stay alive long enough to keep the ignite rolling. Having flamestrike rotation do dmg will be a big boost and may be an alternative to arcane when melee is crowded.

I don’t think frost has a problem in m+. It’s has it strengths and its weaknesses. Toughest boss in the game is the tree in AA and its brilliant on that fight scaling up off all the targets. If your in lower keys with shorter pulls you might be struggling to get the dmg out of IV and keeping orbs up but in keys where the timer is issue thats not a problem.

23

No one plays that anymore dude. Check the talent builds on subcreation, will help you get some more dps.

Also the ice lance spam fixes the crazy mob count scaling frost had in SL that got it nerfed so many times and feeds into the cdr on IV which orb and blizzard now don’t.

24

Still played by people but this doesn’t matter. Frost has a cap on aoe which makes it unable to scale well for aoe situations. Why? Because aoe abilities do low dmg and ice lance can only hit 2 targets. Show me you sustain 500k aoe as frost and I delete every post I made about it being weak on aoe.

1 Like
25

all top mages for frost capping out at 22, how is that not ultra rabid trash?

most other classes go to 24, which is a significant difficulty jump

26

One of the reasons why Frost isn’t being buffed more is because the 4 piece tier set is a massive dps gain. And most players haven’t acquired this yet. When you do you’ll see a massive increase in your dps.

I don’t get why they don’t buff Fire ST.

27

Capping out at 23 like most specs. A handful go higher and a handful dont get that high. And most don’t have an OP big brother spec doing the most damage of any ranged spec.

Its a soft cap, it does reduced dmg above 8 targets but the more mobs there are the more cdr you get on orb, the more orbs you get up. Make sure to get a nice bit of mastery. Ice Nova is uncapped btw. O and frostbite is great for extra crit dmg.

It doesn’t have to be OP to be viable.

28

Tiers should not be an answer for poor tuning. No spec should be tuned around specific items because if you don’t have them your dmg will be way behind.

On side note if vault wasn’t rigged I would have 4 piece by now but it is.

29

COS and SBG are the two easiest dungeons by a milestone. So capping at 22.

Heck COS and SBG are capped at 25 right now

30

hey, rank one frost mage here. i would have 24 on both cos and sbg if we got the keys this week, and 23s on other dungeons are also easily doable with a clean run. frost is good, stop coping.

2 Likes
31

So you’re saying that it is literally just by chance that all the top frost mages just for the life of them can’t get clean 23 runs?

1 Like
32

the spec i play has nothing to do with someone in my group making a mistake, dying to unexpected damage or so on. that’s what depletes a key, not playing frost. you cannot with a straight face claim that frost is somehow bad or weak when i’m at 1-2 key levels below people actually playing this game for a living.

1 Like
33

Yes, yes I actually can, with a straight face, say that - if the current top keys are being done by x and y classes, and not z. I can safely say statistically that z is inferior to x and y.

Moreover, sims say that, raid logs say that, dungeon logs say that. Even through my very own experience as frost mage of being kicked from parties because I’m “playing the wrong spec”. Not getting into raids even, because they’re afraid of arcane missplays.

Down here, a lot of us are being treated like trash. If you really want to deny us that expression, feel free, but I have to inform you that this is our situation.

3 Likes
34

You heared it boys let’s pack your stuffs nothing to discuss further. Frost is bis! It works for one thousandths of players with top gear premades so everything is great.

Not sure why people so against some adjustments but whatever. Already gave up on this terrible mage design

3 Likes
35

This must be a joke for fire and frost. You are forced into arcane right now wich is the most boring of the specs

2 Likes
36

So you are satisfied with current product they gave us for frost and fire mage because you are r1?

2 Likes
37

Oh my god. Guy comes in and proves frost can do cutting edge content, tells you frost is fine and you can’t except it and seems like your blaming him for being good???

What happens if all the specs are fairly well balanced? Those ‘z’ specs still exist but they are mostly within a small % of the ‘x’ and ‘y’. They are playable but there’s always going to be specs that a lil more dmg or have a lil more utility that make things at the very very top level that tiny bit easier.

You then get your players who spend hours watching twitch streams of these top players trying to learn bit and pieces and they see which of these specs these top players are playing and decide other specs aren’t any good. If you ever stop and listen to those players though they’ll tell you anything is viable up and around 15s to 20s depending on gear and theres not much between a lot of the specs.

So they go back to their guild and start telling everyone this spec bad, that spec is bad. The chinese whispers start and get exagerated until even the people playing the spec believe it. They get kicked from groups for being the wrong spec and take it heart when the truth is you don’t want to be in the group with fotm rerollers at low to mid keys, those are the keys where people make mistake, throw blame around and rage quit.

They then use it as an excuse for their bad preformance in dungeons instead of asking themselves how can I improve my damage? Do I have good secondary stats for aoe? Should I still be running this cone of cold talent or is that not the best way do more dps? Should I use my cd here or save it? Maybe ask the tank how big he pulls to decide which talents to run?
Instead they take to forums to vent there anger at the devs because their spec is so “undertuned”. Doesn’t matter if some people can make it work in the highest content in the game because it overall slightly below average and they can’t make it work.

They even start blaming the class design even though with the new talent system this is best our specs have been in the first patch of an expac in at least 8 years? WoD was 8 years ago, last time we started an expac without half the spec design locked behind gear or AP. Probably overall the best they felt since double leggo legion or max corruption bfa.

39

What happens if all the specs are fairly well balanced? Those ‘z’ specs still exist but they are mostly within a small % of the ‘x’ and ‘y’. They are playable but there’s always going to be specs that a lil more dmg or have a lil more utility that make things at the very very top level that tiny bit easier.

Your comment makes sense other than the fact that most specs are in fact played, and while its true that a certain margin opt to play the higher dmg spec, many don’t, some opt for more fun classes, or in my case, I’m from Norway so obviously I play ****in Frost mage, it’s a shame our rotation is silly, but its this way because blizzard wants us to only spam IL all the time.

Here are some stats to look at

70k ench shamans, 52k ele
123k MM, 114k BM
a metric ton of Fury, but almost no arms.
60k Arcane, 60k Frost, and 20k fire

As you can see, the stats vary and while some specs are less played because of its lack of damage, look at BM hunter for mythic.

They even start blaming the class design even though with the new talent system this is best our specs have been in the first patch of an expac in at least 8 years? WoD was 8 years ago, last time we started an expac without half the spec design locked behind gear or AP. Probably overall the best they felt since double leggo legion or max corruption bfa.

You forget to mention that every other class has new things to play with, but us? we get nothing new, all of our talent tree is rehash, almost literally. Face it dude, Blizz hates us, We don’t get any attention, because they simply don’t like us, they want us to fizzle and die out like Jaina. They hate Scandinavians, they hate Canadians, they hate Alaskians, and they want Polar Bears extinct.

40

Agree. I was just saying how it is right now. To give Frost players a little bit of hope that it will get better when they finally get their tier.

41

I got the tier and it is nothing gamebreaking. It is only good when you pop frozen orb and you chain lances so they all get the spell damage bonus but it does not even proc from ice lances cast after flurry (since there is no FoF to be consumed) so it is yet again a bad designed tier. Basically doesn’t proc more than half the times.

42

:rofl::joy: I agree the trees need some love. They trapped themselves in a corner with fire and frost where the cdr synergies are too strong. I think they need to take some steps back before they can take some steps forward.