Guardian Druids can do good AOE DPS during incarn/berserk on larger pulls. But their single target or few-target DPS is close to the lowest amongst the tanks. Only reason Guardian druids can do good DPS in raids is because of Cat-weaving (or moonkin weaving) - but that doesn’t have much to do with tanking and is useless in M+.
Imo, this change although welcome is not a good solution.
At the end of the day :-
1- DH ( and druids ) massively out damage other tanks.
2- DHs toolkit and design is severely superior to others
3- Current dungeon design massively supports kiting, since some mobs are outlandishly overtuned, have big stacking debuffs and it would be absolutely dumb to face tank them
4- DHs are able to burst > get out, in contrast to some other tanks, for example Bdks who need to be in range to do their thing and outside for range they have nothing but flimsy dots to do their jobs for them
5- CC isn’t as big as it is before, mainly because of the existence of mobs that ignore CC in many parts of the dungeon, and even if there are ways to avoid them these mobs give too much % to ignore and thus kiting them is more beneficial
Have you heard of cc? Open your spellbook, there’s something called sap.
In case anyone hadn’t seen the full breakdown:-
HOTFIXES
March 26, 2021
Classes
- Improved the auto-targeting of player spells that are intended to avoid out-of-combat enemies. This hotfix includes further enhancements to the 9.0.5. changes that reduced spells pulling extra enemies.
- Death Knight
- Blood
- [With regional restarts] Veteran of the Third War (Rank 2) now also reduces all damage taken by 10%.
- Demon Hunter
- Vengeance
- [With regional restarts] Fixed an issue where both the Havoc and Vengeance versions of Demonic Wards were being applied to Vengeance Demon Hunters.
- [With regional restarts] Fixed an issue where the Havoc version of Shattered Souls was being applied to Vengeance Demon Hunters.
- [With regional restarts] Demonic Wards (Rank 1) damage reduction increased to 10% (was 5%).
- Druid
- Guardian
- [With regional restarts] Ursine Adept now also reduces all damage taken by 10%.
- Monk
- Brewmaster
- [With regional restarts] Brewmaster’s Balance now also reduces all damage taken by 10%.
- Paladin
- Protection
- [With regional restarts] New Passive: Aegis of Light – All damage taken reduced by 10%.
- Warlock
- Demonic Circle, Grimoire: Felguard (Talent), Mortal Coil (Talent), and Summon Infernal will no longer be placed on a very long cooldown when interrupted and affected by a Death Knight’s Heartstop Aura or Delirium.
- Warrior
- Protection
- [With regional restarts] Vanguard now also reduces all damage taken by 10%.
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Are you trolling? in the very post you’re quouting I talk about
Also, Use of sap is important, but in dungeons way above +10, you kind of want to time the dungeon, so you’ll be mass pulling and sapping / long ccs on niche mobs if applicable, like the menders in Spires.
Let’s take an example.
In the end part of Mists, the important mobs are immune to sap, they give shields and heals ( which are kickable btw ) but they are also immune to stun, so you cannot pull more than two, they hit like trucks and they also cannot be slowed, so you need to outrun them, after dishing out as much damage as possible.
Druids don’t outdamage other tanks. They hold 3th place in M+, 2nd place in Mythic CN, 5th place in Heroic CN, last place in normal CN.
The difference in Raid performance between difficulties is due to Mythic Guardian tanks being good enough to use Cat Weaving (or boomkin weaving) when the other tank has the agro. While that of course certainly counts for something, it’s not applicable to all bosses and has very little to do with tanking itself, since it’s not done in Bear Form.
Its not boomkins its NF and convoke you mistake the facts .
He is do not waste your time ,he is no were on your level of play .
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One of my guildies voiced the idea that every week, the top 5 classes should be nerfed by 2% and the bottom 5 buffed by 2%.
I rather liked the thought.
Because if you can’t balance the game (Blizzard can’t and never will be able to), then at least rotate it so everyone gets a share of being at both ends of the list on a regular basis. Play what you want; if it sucks, don’t worry, it’ll be fotm sooner or later.
I hate the whole “let’s not disturb the pecking order mid-season”. Nobody gives a crap about seasons. Nobody cares about MDI. Respect your actual players and make the adjustments needed to give them a better game.
DHs are taken for their insane kiting capability plus the massive amount of utility they bring.
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And they are super tanky too… self heal… mega magic res which is nerfed now… self res if a killing blow and 5% magic damage buff…
If it was about kiting prot warrior heroic leap lego would be best tank… just spam aggro them jump away…
Ive played prot vdh and dk tanks since they got added to the game… vdh were insane and probs still will be tbh
And we’re all talking about mythic plus here. The changes have pretty much no bearing on CN which is done and dusted.
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Strictly speaking they didn’t find it.
I bet it was known to DH theorycrafters, who were quiet about it, until someone made the math and Wowhead made it known.
That was when the devs found out.
Meanwhile, brewmasters; forgotten despite being very kite-y.
Finally , thank you !
That damn flying circus clown going down… good riddance.
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Druids get to face tank longer than other tanks, especially in incarn where they also deal huge amounts of damage, bear tanks can consistently pull 20k+ dps while face tanking at +22 and above keys, which also makes your dps pull more dps.
As contrast to Vdh who have high burst and can get out faster.
Now compare the two to the other tanks, and you’ll see in M+ they actually dish out pretty decent damage due to this fact.
Here’s a comparison on DoS, unfortunately I didn’t find any Prot pala vid above +19 but you can only imagine how superbly high the difference between 2x +23 ( Vdh ) , +22 ( Bear tank ) and +19 ( Prot paladin ) is +22 ( brewmaster tyrannical ) +19 ( brewmaster fortified ) +19 ( prot war ) and +19 ( Bdk )
I’ll place links at end of post.
You’ll see End results as
1- Brewmaster ( 4.7k )
2- Bear ( 4.6k )
3- Vdh ( 3.8k )
4- Brewmaster ( 3.8 )
5- Prot pal ( 3.5k )
6- War ( 3.5 k )
7- Vdh ( 3.3k )
8- Bdk ( 3.3k )
You’ll noticed I posted Vdh and brew two times, that’s because I want to emphasize that their ability to get their team mates to do dps is vastly much higher than other tanks, and their utility and initial burst damage ( which makes them hold aggro ) is what makes them special, not just their dps.
While on the other side, bear tanks were able to vastly deal more dps and at the same time pull much more dps from their team mates because they could face tank.
The monk might not be accurate since its tyrannical, and they could face tank much easier due to the fact, which means they would’ve spent more time kiting in a fortified setting, it still worth mentioning, as comparison vid for a +19 fortified shows that where the monk tank ended up doing 3.8k dps.
I think the most important part to emphasize here is, the ardenweald area, which shows why I said druid tanks due insane damage, they effectively managed to make the biggest pulls here, face tank them and do 20k+ dps, the bear face tanked through incarn and then had urn, while Vdh needed urn immediately and started kiting afterwards and peaked at +16k dps
Ofcourse there are many variables, to why a tank is good, but the main point we are talking about here is
And imo, this clearly shows that they absolutely, positively 100% insanely out damage other tanks, by a huge margin too.
They have their problems, but good players are able to play around their strengths, which are pretty insane.
Should havoc DH become meta, I think probably bear tanks will take Vdh spot since the 5% dam increase is just too huge, if coupled with bear’s ability to face tank and keep the mobs in mage’s flame patch then they defo would get the upper hand.
Vdh :-
De Other Side +23, Grievous Holy Paladin PoV - YouTube
WORLDS FASTEST +23 DE OTHER SIDE Mythic+ Dungeon | Vengeance DH Tank POV | Method - YouTube
Prot Paladin :-
De Other Side Dungeon Guide - 19+ Prot Pala Tanking - YouTube
Bear Tank :-
BEAR TANK M+ De Other Side +22 Commentary - YouTube
Prot War :-
Plka, Venthyr Protection Warrior, Mythic +20 De Other Side! - YouTube
Brew master :-
Brewmaster 22 Tyrannical DoS 4 mins remaining?!?! - YouTube
De Other Side +19 - Night Fae - Brewmaster Monk - YouTube
Blood DK :-
Blood DK +19 De Other Side - Fortified, Bursting, Volcanic, Prideful - YouTube
No they wont lol. You dont Seem to get the point of why Veng dh is pref. Its not because of tankiness. IT is because of their snap burst. Also a Lot is Also community perception. Havoc is stronger than ever yet is still percepted as bad. The meta Will stay because the majority of players who cares about this is tanks.
10% is massive. Imagine if any dps spec got a 10% across the board dps buff, they would rise to the top.
Id like to point out here what some streamer said about it. IT Will impact Those who have the best dps in m+ As tanks mostly. If you are suddenly able to take less damage many Will switch to more dps. Dont forget that vengs problem was physical damage. Fyi we can just switch one endurance out and we wont even feel the nerf its Called “vicious” ink. Also do not forget Veng has spirit bomb for very offensive builds.
Not quite. If you are Kyrian and you probably should be you will be running Kleia for Ascendant Phial so you are using two defensives like it or not. You can pick more offensive talents, but probably wont because survival trumps dps as a tank. You do have the choice of Vicious Ink if not already running it, but that takes some other defensive away you were using before.
VDH will do just fine because they can pick up threat quick, kite easily, maintain threat from range, and have Sigil of Silence. Other tanks will be more viable than before, but as someone that swapped from Guardian to VDH mid season (and have a paladin and monk at 60 ready too) because of the better kiting of VDH I wont be swapping back anytime soon even though the Guardian is the same gear level.