Why would people do this to themselves?
Because people will be able to get their perfect 30 minutes somewhere, and go on to the next level. people keep progressing. With this system you get higher keys done than with the current keysystem. Meaning people are bashing their head full time and more often. It is just not really fun.
Or you simply ask people to quit M+. But i am not sure asking to play less is the idea of a game.
My suggestion before in those topics has been something like; give a key 2 charges. Since i am fine with 1 time resetting, but thatâs basically it.
Can say the same for the dungeon finder, do you get trapped there often?
They can complete the +20 they earned from timing a 19/18/17, and then deplete back to a +19, i dont see the issue.
Raids are designed to be a wipe and try over thing, and you can still only kill the boss ONCE per week, not really compareable to dungeons that you can spam over and over.
On me, I vote yes on the removal of the down grade, additional, you must complete some trial like golden lantern class trial to become available to go into that level or below. So if you want unlock the 8, you must do proving grounds level 8. This shows you have the skill to do 8 and comfortaballe there. Then you can do 8 as long as you wish.
Hmmm I would definitely not play with such players, just like I do not do mythic raids.
No, because in dungeon finder it is (insultingly) easy and you can get replacements teleported at you.
I do not see the issue either. But other players do and they chose to make others uncomfortable about it.
But because they can be spammed over and over they almost never drop anything too. I would prefer to do a particular dungeon just once a week and âcall it a dayâ with a better chance of loot
Well one of the ideaâs of M+ is to challenge yourself and try to do every time a key level higher 
But yes, my suggestions would be a 2 charges key and i would like to add a âscience runâ feature where you can do the dungeon without a key, but it does not count for anything. So you can prepare in a better way. The current keysystem means you are sometimes for multiple weeks not seeing a dungeon at all.
People will naturally want so see where their limit is and even break past it. That is fine, it is part of the power fantasy.
I only wish for people to have fewer reasons to be ogres at each other.
Most of my grievances about M+ stem more from how the horror stories around it (as well as the extents the community has gone to profile players based on merit) make me feel than from personal experiences.
Yea this would solve the issues of leavers and trolls in keys
This limit obviously keeps changing the more experience players and groups have. It is for example well known MDI players are trying out every pull hundreds of times with beforehand coordinating who is interrupting/ccâing what. You can always do better. Especially we the non professionals.
I think this part is actually the issue. People only share negative experiences. For every âhorror toxicâ-run there are so many positive runs without toxicity, even when a run is untimed. M+ got the problem of a bad image because of this 
People would still leave and troll keys.
2 Likes
Even if they did not share the negative experiences directly, it shows in how people sometimes almost threaten applicants with the disclaimers in their listed groups (that part also happens with raid pugs)
I donât get the problem, honestly.
The point of keeping them locked is not to prevent players from running them - the point is to provide a gentle migration for the player who otherwise might not know what the appropriate difficulty for him is - leveraging the fact that skill and gear goes up to justify starting him from the bottom.
Complaining about this is sort of like complaining that someone got boosted in their Black Temple attunement and now has infinite access to Black Temple. Like⌠okay? Doesnât mean heâs got enough to beat it. Weâre not keeping him out to annoy him, weâre keeping him out to tell a story and direct his experience to easier things first unless he knows heâs ready - in which case, boost away.
1 Like
Time wasted?
Yes, I dont care abut my key being depleted, I care more about wasting my time on a dungeon just to have someone leave it and I dont even get the loot even though we could finish it, if we cant and wipe 4-5 times on the same boss/pack then I have no problem with leaving and that could be solved by a voting system.
1 Like
Iâve been pugging M+ ever since Legion and I swear to god, the amount of toxic runs some people seem to have is crazy. Youâll hear stories on here how they have 20 toxic runs per day meanwhile I canât even get 20 toxic runs per year.
Thereâs always 2 sides to the stories and Iâm sure they are egging people on sometimes because thereâs no way they would run into that many toxic people.
2 Likes
yeah, there has to be a lot of the trope of the villain thinking that they are good and everyone else is the villain
I so agree with this statement. I only do M+ content, and failing around 10-12 Temple 15+ keys because of a bug factor (The first bossâ Wash Away ability still bugs, and has become quite frequent) is just so sad. Currently, I am back to tjs 14, down from a 19 key⌠Can you imagine my frustrationâŚ
Ouch. I thought this bug was fixed. It has been quite a burden to kill the boss, but last runs it was fine.
I am glad you did not encounter it, but I get it roughly and not even exaggerating 4/5 times now.
Speaking of Bugs. We did Academy earlier this week with guildies and friends. The scripted bird waves before the bird boss is available somehow bugged and we stopped getting birds while we got stuck in combat.
This would had bricked the key if the DH did not knew a way to glide to near the distant platforms to manually pull the birds with glaive toss.
Those who did not die remained unable to mount for the entire run
If this was a high key, it would had been a guaranteed depletion, through no fault of any player involved.