00s, 90s back that away.
“Time’s change.” as they say.
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A very good point of view Jito.
I do not like Marvel at all, I hope one day Blizz will start to write a good story again and will forget about this stupid ideea of saving the Galaxy again and again and again.
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But do times change for the better? Clearly, they have changed for the worse. That being the case, it’s no wonder it saddens people.
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In Vanilla I almost quit WoW because there was nothing to do… so for me it’s a yes.
I never liked raiding. What else was there??? Oh yeah levelling and getting ganked by high lev people, logging out and log back your 60 and go after them… very interesting stuff…
Bunch of dudes fighting is very mid 2000… it was 20 years ago… we still had the Nokia brick 
.
People need to move on and stop being stuck in the past.
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Yep, i agree with the OP. Anduin is a king that needs a shrink to solve his issues, the new leader of Gilneas is a girl (nothing against her, but its changing the tough and amazing Gen with a very meh daughter). Thrall has become a middle aged dad who has given up on life and on the franchise. The dragon aspects, those powerful, amazing wardens of the elementals and guardians of the planet have become super models that have their own reality show and in the last episode they magnificently got their superpowers of beauty and sparkles back.
I expect Warcraft to be soon be renamed to Hugcraft. Probably expansion after the next one, when they remove Metzen’s balls and hang them in Activision’s or MS office of some or other unknown Director.
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Vanilla’s jam was levelling, plain and simple. If you didn’t like that there wasn’t much else on offer, but it was also near enough the best levelling the game has ever had. tBC added to it meaningfully and is in my opinion the best. 1-60 tBC is absolutely amazing.
I don’t see what the NOKIA bricks have to do with anything. I don’t know why you bring it up. I can explain to you why vanilla works but I’d be here all day. I have done it before though so if you’re interested you can probably search it up.
As a business, you can’t just say “move on and stop being stuck in the past”. If your customers know what they want and you’re not providing it then you’ll just lose your customers. And they have lost a lot by this point. The customer is always right in matters of taste.
The principles that make some old games good still apply and will still make those games good. For example, I’m playing a lot of Heroes 3 at the moment and it is good for exactly the same reasons as it was in 1999, plus a team managed to bolt a great and balanced competitive multiplayer game on top. The scene is growing and the game is more healthy than ever. Same with Age of Empires 2.
Good games are just good - new or old. The limitations of their designs can maybe be lifted for something better, but if you don’t know what you’re doing and you can’t leverage modern technology to improve the game, but instead manage to make it worse, the old version is still better - and it’ll still be better a hundred years from now.
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Anduin was 18 in BfA.
Thrall was 19 in Warcraft 3. (originally 24 but was retconned to 19).
Chris Metzen wrote Thrall, Christie Golden wrote Anduin.
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I agree with the sentiment but absolutely not the details as to why…
First of all, who cares about “their politics world view”… Whenever people say this it’s usually a dig at more inclusive things like body types instead of genders and the appearance of a few gay couples in the game (that aren’t even secondary characters, they’re like forgettable quest givers)… Does this really affect how the game plays? No, move on… I don’t engage with aspects of the game that don’t interest me, can’t you do the same?
Now are there glaring issues with how the lore and story has played out over the last few expansions? Hell yeah, they’ve even admitted it themselves, freaking Longdale said so in public. The overall tone of the story has been off. It lost some of its grittiness, and got too many soapy moments, and the one time they decided to go super dark (SL) it just came across as an edgy pile of nonsense that disrespected years of loved and pre-established lore.
Finally the “us vs them” or “blue vs red” faction element was broken since vanilla. Night Elves joining the alliance and being friendly when the horde got the Forsaken at neutral never made sense. Especially after they expanded further on the lore and said that Taurens and Night Elves were basically distant allies for millennia. Stories have to evolve somehow, and yeah the factions aren’t so much in the core of the game and that’s fine. I get there’s some nostalgia for simpler times, but that’s all it is. If every expansion had a faction war followed with “unite to fight a common enemy and hang out in a neutral city” the story would have legit been worse.
I’d like to believe that the new upcoming trilogy saga will re-establish a more suitable tone that will both respect the roots of the game as well as expand it towards directions previously unthought of.
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till Wotlk is classic,rest is …well you know.
Because we are not using them anymore… we evolve.
Only the sheep and horses stay in the same green field eating grass.
Take the salami off your nostalgia eyes: the world is different now.
But no one here is arguing that Blizzard’s technological advancements in WoW are detrimental to the game’s enjoyment. We’re not breaking our backs here because of the updated character models, increased view distance, or support for higher resolutions. Everyone is pretty cool with WoW evolving with the times as a piece of software.
Where people seem to put their foot down is with regards to lore, story, and presentation. And you can argue that such areas also need to evolve with the times and therefore Warcraft has to change. But it’s a hard argument to make when the general reception in recent expansions has been so poor with regards to these areas. At that point it’s reasonable to ask if you’re changing things for the better or the worse.
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Excuse me, what have my people (germans) to do with that?
Exactly! 
confused screaming
This is quite possibly the most tiresome point ever devised. It’s commonly used and, in particular, misused to excuse any and all change regardless of what it is.
It can be used to justify anything. ANYTHING.
Like this:
Because we don’t have democracy anymore… we evolve.
Only the sheep and horses stay in the same green field eating grass.
Take the salami off your nostalgia eyes: the world is different now.
Because now our country is a bad imitation of The Dictator
And that’s better because of what reason exactly?
The only counterargument, and a very obvious one at that, is calling it what it is: Defending stupid change for the sake of change.
Some things needed changing. Some things didn’t. If we just change things blindly it’s just a random walk - it may get better, it may get worse - who knows? It is the suspension of all critical thinking.
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Deep… maybe, just not complex, else it wouldn’t have gone through so many retcons.
Seriously even between Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft vanilla the game faced a dozen retcons alone. Especially through Thrall’s arc.
Ofc for goodness sake… ofc…
Lemme remind you that the most successful story is not about a bunch of dudes fighting but rather a prince who fell into darkness after he saw his people afflicted by a plague, and his lover and his mentor tried to persuade him… and then he confronted a demon with a cursed blade that made his mind corrupted… betrayed his father and reached the source of the power where he put an helm on and joined the Lich king….
…once a shaman but defiled by a powerful being………… that serves a titan converted to fel and chaos…
… what the hell are you talking about??? This was Warcraft. After that there were only dudes fighting.
What we have now? The struggle of the dragons against powerful enemies, four primal dragons infused with elements because they never trusted the titans, fighting others whom trust the titans instead. The battle for the control of the dragon isles, the void is coming back, the dream is getting weaker and therefore Azeroth is waking up, the titans will have a part in this… are they good gods? Who knows? Was the void good all along? Is the light evil? Certainly the light can hurt, who knows…
…
…
…
But yeah, let’s go back to bunch of dudes fighting… while EVERYONE goes to FF14 because of the story.
Yeah 
they wanted to focus on the bunch of dudes fighting, because nobody cared apparently
About FF14, they don’t go only for the story…
The gameplay in general is very good, easy to get into. Literally plug and play.
Plus they don’t try to hinder their players every now and then. Things we get in WoW in TWW for example , they have them in FF14 how many years now…
They didn’t make a game for 100 people, they made a MMO.
I don’t think people leaving WoW for the story…
At least not 95% of them didn’t leave for the story.
Good gameplay can carry a bad/mediocre story.
Story can’t carry a game with bad gameplay. You’d play once to see the story and uninstall.
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Not, not “ofc”. You were speaking as if we should all keep playing regardless of what the change was. If we can discuss whether it was good or bad, then we’re back into the realm of actual debate again. Which is nice.
Arthas is a fallen prince and all of that, yes, but fundamentally he is also a big dude murdering big dudes with a giant sword and raising zombies to fight even more big dudes. Women were involved as well - the “big dudes” thing isn’t necessarily about men imo, it can also be warrior or sorcery women, but the point is it’s a lot more about violence and a lot less about hugging and feelings.
Arthas is their most popular story, yes, but not the backbone of WoW and not why WoW grew. The game peaked shortly before Arthas and started losing players just after he was released. The game had grown for 4 consecutive years without Northrend altogether.
At the time, most players were below level 70. I know people don’t believe it when I say it, but WoW levelling was huge in its early days. Only a few million level 60’s in vanilla, tBC was a new continent to spread the characters evenly because they expected that a year down the line only 35-40% of players’ time would be at level 60-70. People were PvP’ing a lot more as well.
Yeah it could be great, but the writing is so bad and soap-opera’y that I cringe myself into knots every time a cinematic plays.
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