Warlock design going into next expansion

Yes i know the next expansion is one year+ away but Ion already said no meaningful changes during BFA in terms of class design so might aswell start this topic.

This will be my only feedback and i truly hope it gets to the devs somehow, so we can improve warlock class design together.

Before i start i ask you all to provide constructive feedback and not troll, im actually trying here.

Said this, i’ll offer 2 solutions in terms of design:

  1. Old design (Burning Crusade, Wotlk, Cataclysm)
  2. New design (Mists, Warlords, Legion, BFA)

I’ll also say wich abilities need to comeback as baseline and wich need to be removed (in my opinion).
In order to do this we need to look at warlocks as a class and not as 3 individual specs, wich is the main problem with class design in general.

Okay so lets start.

Abilities that need to comeback as baseline for the WARLOCK kit.

  1. Shadowflame (15 sec cooldown, slows the target by 70%)
  2. Armors (both demon and fel armor)
  3. Soul Link to all specs
  4. Demonic Circle
  5. Drain Mana (if mana rift stays in the game)
  6. Hellfire
  7. Lifetap (if we go back to old design, read further)
  8. Searing Pain
  9. Fel Flame (if new design philosophy, read further)
  10. Soul Fire
  11. Death Coil (yes the old death coil, 2 min cooldown,300% heal from the damage dealt)
  12. Curse of elements ( i dont get why dh got this from us in BFA)
  13. Shadow ward
  14. Dark Soul
  15. Drain Soul

I get we probably cant get everything but most of these spells need to comeback, specially 1,2,3,4,8, 11, 14, 15 and 7/9 depending on wich design philosophy you go.

Abilities that need comeback as baseline per spec.
Before i start, warlocks currently (and in legion too) are the only class in the game wich doesnt have a slow or root baseline.

Affliction:

  1. Curse of exaustion (slow)
  2. Amplify Curse
  3. Haunt
  4. Nightfall
  5. Shadow’s Embrace

Destruction:

  1. Conflagrate Slow (i think it was a daze)
  2. Shadowburn
  3. Shadowbolt
  4. Backlash
  5. Fire and Brimstone (Mop design)
  6. Ember Tap

Demo:

  1. A slow, maybe curse of exaustion too.
  2. Will leave this one open since i didnt play it that much before legion.

Abilities that need to be removed per spec

Affliction:

  1. Darkglare
  2. Deathbolt

Destruction:

  1. Havoc
  2. Entrenched in flame (pvp talent)

Demonology:

  1. Call Felhunter (if you want a spell lock, summon a felhunter having both it shouldnt be a thing)

Design ways we can go about.
Old design and my personal favorite.

General changes:
Shards -Removed as a damage resource, now they are used for utility like pets, soulstone, heealthstone.

Health is now the main resource for damage, you trade health for mana with Life tap.
This fullfills class fantasy more than combo points… i mean shards.

Damage abilities that before used shards will have cd’s instead, like frost/fire mages.
So (chaos bolt, haunt-read affliction changes, hand of guldan will now have cd’s)

Affliction:

  1. Dot duration increased to old values - right now its just not fun, doesnt add any type of skill to have low dot duration just annoyance.
  2. UA is back to be a normal dot
  3. Haunt now is our only dot modifier
  4. Shadowbolt as the “filler” untill 30% where Drain Soul now acts like a execute (higher damage with the more dots you have on the target)

Medium AoE cleave with dots and good ST through haunt, with the haunt cd it makes your decisions important.
The gameplay wouldnt feel as one dimensional as right now since you modify it at 30% with the execute.

Destruction:
I would say the playstyle would be around the same but with Chaos bolt having a CD it makes it, like haunt, more decision based even though its gonna be used pmuch on CD.

What this changes is simple, makes casting a Chaos Bolt relevant again. Its an amazing spell wich got trivialized.

Also with havoc removed its easy to balance in terms of damage and still offers cleave through fire and brimstone.

Shadowburn comeback would add the execute the spec had for years.

Demo:
I’ll left this one blank for you guys, but i would go back to meta playstyle.

I think that was a lot more skilled and good players who knew how to play it shined.

New design:

Shards stay as a damage resource but fel flame (for all specs) now adds an instant builder to use on the move.

Spenders are now instant, yes even Chaos Bolt.
Warlocks are the only caster with builder/spender design where your spender is casted.
Boomies/elementals/shadowpriests/arcane mages have all instant spenders (void bolt can be looked as a reverse spender for shadow priests).

Within current design this is a flaw that needs adressing.

Affliction:

  1. Still same “playstyle” than the above.
  2. Soulburn return.
  3. Haunt is now the spender UA still a normal dot, if you Soulburn it you spend 2 shards but you get haunting spirits (WoD talent).
  4. Seed of corruption spends 1 shard, if you soulburn it it becomes instant and sends 3 seeds (spends 3 shards)

Destruction:

  1. Shadowburn spends 1 shard, it returns it if the target dies.
  2. Chaos bolt as it is right now.
  3. Fire and Brimstone as it was in MoP, you activate it and spend/gain shards depending on the amount of targets hit.

Demo:

  1. Dreadstalkers instant
  2. Hand of guldan Instant
  3. Fiend instant
  4. Nether Portal instant
  5. Bilescourge Bombers instant

(so if it uses shards= instant)

This makes the spec have a diferent flow instead of feeling you are casting 99.9% of the time, wich you are pretty much.

These are some of the ideas i have, leave yours.

Hopefully we can get a review in next expansion, we surely need it.

Edit:
Remove unending resolve too, doesnt fit us.

9 Likes

Well thought out post.

Agree with most of it and obviously prefer the old design. I would probably have more casted spells though, that’s one change that I actually think is going the right way rather than all instants although they’d have to rethink interrupt homogenisation too.

Definitely need to put shards back as utility and make health & mana mean something again. Also might need to hold back on putting literally everything back in as you suggest or it would be a bit op unless doing the same for all classes.

Good ideas though +1

To bring Soul Link back to baseline alone requires alot of changes to our class and I imagine it would affect alot of the other classes.

Almost all the changes you suggest require , basically , a class overhaul and some major changes to other classes.The amount of effort to do that is huge and I imagine that can be done only in chunks and thats assuming they are willing to do that.

1 Like

I respect you’re still fighting but it’s literally a lost cause at this point.

4 Likes

No it is not. As long as people critique new-broken warlock gameplay, and point on old working gameplay there is a chance that we will be heard.
I know that it may seems pointless to express your anger or try to proposal a fix or better changes, especialy with current blizzard, but as long as people express their unhappiness and do so in constructive way, there is always will be a chance.

yeah i did that on purpose to show how many “spenders” we have as demo, and all casts. its not fun currently in my opinion.

yeah shards as utility is indeed the way to go.

Other classes have around 2/3 more tools than us currently with shadowpriests, rogues, ww’s, mages, shamans being outliers.

More tools, or old tools actually is the way to go for fun class design in general.

Wich changes exactly?
Remove demon skin, demon skin is extremly hard to balance in comparison to soul link in both pve and pvp since a good player will get the most out of it and a begginner wont.

At the same time absorbing damage by doing damage is extremly “clunky” defensive since it can be negated in pvp unless extremly overpowered.

Other classes can stay exactly the same with the new design, but yes this class needs, yet again, a overhaul.

I know mate, still if im paying (for some reason) i want to feel that it wasnt because of me that warlocks stayed the same.

Even though i made this post i feel the same way.

Specially in pvp where, yet again, no changes were made this week.

3 Likes

Your work is appreciated. To fill out the blank demonology I would say:

Give back demonology utility

It was nice to be tanks for some raid bosses, and require less attention of healing for 5 man instances. People respected us for that reason, not because of dps. We used to get more invites in TBC and wotlk because of our suitability and + dmg buff./debuffs.

Also the idea of Apotheosis that was scrapped back in mop. PLEASE BRING IT BACK!!! I would like to see demonlock tanking 5 man instances. Lorewise warlocks should be front line in battles, just like shamans.

But most important: Give Shadow bolt the dignity that deserves. I know is not gonna be chaos bolt or soulfire, but God, its is shadow dmg, the most powerful element in azeroth. Make it 2.5 sec casting time, make it cost soul shards but damn, make ppl wanna interrupt me when they see me casting shadow bolt.

Naf said.

Wotlk affliction was perfection incarnate - its just sad how they got there from vanilla on the 2nd xpac and then just started changing it for the sake of changes and here we are today…

1 Like

I don’t know locks, but know blizzard, every expansion they need to make core changes to all classes /in gear skills or talent system/ to keep you entertained. They don’t look on any other aspect of game. After they broke everything begin to simulate work /fixing/ the game.

And just to know priest is more broken than you. You are good tank at least and a lot better self heal, will say that is not important, but you are strong in 1:1. If I am not lazy will level up my lock or hunter as ranged, they are strong at the moment. My be not fun to play, but strong.

yes. 100% agree.

You have a very low standard for perfection. While i could write an equally long post of everything i dislike about affliction in BFA, i still prefer it over the WotLK version and considering the low support this thread is getting i’m sure there are many people who share my view.

lmao here comes the guy who LOVES BFA, good for you.

You are a minority, as for the “many people” who share your view… This is not a case of “low support im right” its a case of “low support cause a lot of people left”.

But hey, nice that one guy is having fun.

Gz

3 Likes

Thanks, i don’t really know how, from the post you quoted, you deduced that i LOVE bfa, but it’s certainly better than crying on the forum all day and romanticizing about WotLK.

The reason why this post has a low support is because this forums are dead.

BFA affli is the worst i have played since Vanilla.

4 Likes

Just skip SB for aff, give me back legion drain and snip.

Additionaly many of warlocks juts don’t feel that their voice will change anything. Sometimes I catch myself thinking when i want to answer in some topic “why do i even bother” or “Like if i say something it will change anything”. And this is really bad thing, when class community are in such low morale state like we now, it clearly says something about devs attitude towards class and community.
Even one blue post like “guys, we are listening” would be nice, but no, blizzard doesn’t care.

1 Like

Most you Said is true ! Blizz give us the old Warlock, special for me Aff retour!

Personally, I think the more pressing matters for affli are:

  • Longer dot duration.
  • Improved self heals and sligthly more tankiness.
  • Improvement to AOE in order to make it at least viable in M+ (no one is asking for top dps, just enough that you don’t feel a problem for your group).
  • Howl of terror as baseline.

In exchange:

  • Remove darkglare. Stupid mechanic.

Secondary changes that are needed:

  • there are a lot of unfun talents. In some cases, full talent rows.
2 Likes

legion is the 2nd worst design we had LOL.

Either wotlk/cata/mop or if it has to be… wod

However much I would love this, with the prunning and all this won’t happen. But if it did, that would be great, I agree