Why joke, warriors indeed do not bring anything to the group, and our damage does not compensate for that.
I know for a fact there is no statistic you can show me to prove this is not the case, go look at the logs both for M+ and for raid, and you will see that DPS warriors, fury in particular are massively underperforming compared to other melee specs.
I would agree that compared to retribution paladins we are god tier, but that is retribution being under toned massively, not fury being broken.
Battle shout, Rallying cry, intimidating shout, Spear of bastion you could choose shockwave.
And this is just from the top of my head and there is more if you play well you can do a lot as a warrior.
There are 20fury warriors that have done 25 or higher m+ 10 ret paladins 7 assassination rogues 17 unholy DK 0 Frost DKs that have done 25 or higher.
Fury in raid is inside of the top 10 being the top 6th spec in the game right now Arms is higher this is on mythic this means that good players who would play fury play arms right now meaning fury is higher then it actually looks like on the rankings.
When this topic was made warrior did need changes but now today compared to most other classes it really does not.
But saying warrior does not bring anything to a group is just a lie.
Now you are just talking nonsense, making your arguments as you go.
Battle shout works only in melee groups, M+ promotes more Range then melee dps because of intensity of stuff that is happening on ground. Solid Raid buff, useless in M+
Rallying cry is good raid utility, not so much good dungeon utility, it’s because of its 3 min CD.
How the f… is Spear of Bastion utility in PVE? Not only it does not help anybody, but can make stuff a lot harder because it tends to pull adds in a wrong moment. PVP sure I guess.
DPS warriors do not go shockwave because damage you lose if you do not pick spear of bastion Thunderous Roar, or Avatar is just huge and as already our damage is in no position to be cut by 20% when we pick shockwave.
Also Intimidating shout a fear, that means it will brake in half a sec, only rly usable if you see some cast is not going to be interrupted. Can be dangerous to use in some situations.
And my points stands, DPS warriors bring nothing to the group when compared to other DPS specs.
I guess that is why the number one arms warrior plays some of the Highest keys in the world doing 27s with 2 melee dps players.
You first point yes it does but clearly you can make a melee group and do very high keys when some of the highest keys in the world are done by a arms warrior.
Your second point If you think 3min cooldown for a healing cooldown is long you should play a healer sometime because that is proof enough that you do not play one.
Your third point Spear of bastion is utility if you play around it and you can play around it just because you are not doing this does not change the fact that it is utility.
Your fourth point You can have spear of bastion and shockwave at the same time you lose the massive crit that spear of bastion gives you or the second point in Wild strikes (or any other talent that is just me messing around in talent calc) but the standard build for Fury is 2 talent points away from having shockwave.
Just because it is a dps loss does not mean you can not pick it that is a choice you make to lose utility to gain dps.
And fifth That is an aoe interrupt that you are just dismissing as useless.
Good warriors can use this insanely well.
Then a lot of specs in this game based on your criteria of nothing brings nothing to group content in wow. For a class that brings nothing to group content it is really odd that it is used to do the highest mythic pluss dungeons.
Can you explain why warrior would be brought to that content if it is so bad in group content?
Oh and the number 18th highest mythic + run this seasons is done by a fury warrior also 27
Yes, please tell me how to play my class top M+ player. Better do not say anything if your logs look like that.
Anyway,
Comparing the top 1% of players with the rest of the population is just plain stupid and dishonest. You know that yet you keep doing it, people that go to play high keys like 25 26 27 play the game on a different level compared to everybody else. There are some very good survival hunters and retribution paladins out there, does that mean spec is in a good place?
Making melee group in uncoordinated situation, without voice is Russian Roulette, all high keys are done by premade group that knows exactly what they are doing.
Can you please stop calling it utility? It’s a damage spell, you throw it in burst window to maximize your damage, using it outside of that is a waste of talent its pullback is usable only and ONLY in PVP situation to keep your target in your range that is it.
Interesting how you mention that, and then none of the warriors that do +20 ever spec shockwave. You know why? Because you lose like 10k of DPS going shockwave.
I am not saying its useless I am saying that compared to AOE stuns some classes have fear is nothing.
One look at the monk or shaman kit, classes that are BEST damage wise in M+ will show you how much more they bring to the table compared to warrior. Also every other damage spec has something that rest of their team can benefit from, that being BL, CR, or Health stones, Dispelles and they all on top of that have fears, stuns and kicks or silence.
And that fury warrior plays with Monk and Enchantment shaman specs that have potentially most utility in the game, do you ever wonder why ?
LOL personal attacks you really have nothing to say do you.
That right there alone makes me not believe anything you say congratz.
If that is all you have you are a sad person.
(also very ironic you even want to mention it having seen your logs)
That is literally what you are doing.
You are complaining that warrior has no utility because you are ignoring the utility that warrior has that is a fact at this point.
You are comparing warrior to the highest utility specs in the game and complaining while at the same time ignoring the fact that there is many classes and specs that has the same or less utility.
That does not change the fact that you can do it making a group of random people is russian roulette anyway unless you only get people that will carry you.
It is utility that also does damage just because you are not using it like that does not change this you can use it as utility and damage but you choose to use it as damage only, that is on you.
And that is kinda irrelevant you can still pick it if you need the utility that you are complaining about.
You are complaining about not having utility you could get more utility you would not choose so because of the lower dps that is a choice you have made not that it does not exist.
Comparing yourself to the classes with the most utility and then saying you have nothing based on your own way of thinking here your own criteria Ret paladin has Minus utility it does not exist at all there based on your own way of thinking.
Some of the highest utility classes you are comparing yourself to not what the average spec has.
CONGRATULATIONS you just learned that mythic plus is group content.
This must be news to you, the fact of the matter though is that a FURY warrior is inside the top 20 runs in mythic + so far this expansion making warrior the ONLY class in the game that has 3 Specs inside of the top 20 runs done in mythic +.
If Fury warrior was bad you would not see it there just like you do not see other specs there.
BL 10min cooldown you complain about 3min cooldown CR 10min cooldown you complain about 3min cooldown and you can get CR on any class you want it if you want to get it and have been able to for several expansions. Health stones great thing for sure.
For dispells many specs do not have that without taking something that reduces their dps output for the rest of that list you are just listing things you have except for silence.
I mean, I tried to write stuff but you clearly have some problems with warriors, deep inside of you you hate the class that is only way I can explain way you twist arguments.
The fact is: Fury Warrior can and are pushing all types of content at the max level. Fury warrior excells at being a tanky, high-burst and good AoE sustain DPS. Perfect for when you are pushing up the ranks.
Now on utility, Fury Warrior got 3 stops (Fear, ST-stun and a short CD interupt) - with a possibility to go AoE stun if needed for a DPS loss. Fury brings a group save in Rally and can bring intervene to absorb heavy hits on allies. Fury warrior brings Spell Reflect (One of the most broken defencive kit tools, that does silly amounts of damage on top of working as an interupt and breaks mechanics).
Fury Warrior is totally fine where it is. If I could be granted one thing - and the only thing I personally want to see, is that Odyn’s Fury gets a buff and Onslaught meatcleaver gets bug fixed to bring it in line with the rest of the kit.