They barely even did espionage, the sanctum was most likely damaged by them overloading it rather than sabotage and any hostilities afterwards started when the Dwarf was killed.
I’m surprised that you still have the patience to reply to such comments in the first place.
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All elements that run down to other branches which INCLUDED the tertiary possibility of inevitable warfare. At the start of BFA more than ever, even.
If there was going to be war, it would have been better on the Alliance’s motivation - aka Genn pushing buttons - or Azerite harvest going crazy. Instead, those factors became secondary in the ladder to make way for the age-old drama ploy.
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Just wanna ask, how would you get around the imbalance between faction numbers/supremacy then?
If the Horde since the end of MoP haven’t come close to the Alliances military might and by 8.1 and the SoD they are already on the ropes (Shaw even says that the Alliance is winning on every front) how’d you get around this without making the Horde the aggressors?
Simple. I don’t.
Here’s the funny reason why: A victory or a lose should not be the key to making or dealing with a good story. I don’t frankly care if the Alliance stomps the Horde in military might. It’s been obvious from day 1, yet i’m still here playing for the reds.
When you say faction imbalance and faction supremacy, I see tethers to a story that can be told sensibly to a degree that could culminate into something amazing.
If the Horde still remains to be the aggressors, then the reason could be that they’re merely trying to restore or upgrade their might by innovating Azerite in its many forms, as we see demonstrated in-game. Now, the Alliance could be doing the same thing, or could simply just be working against the Horde on this, which could stretch out into a veritable web of plots and sub-plots that I am confident in saying would be better than my head-honcho feeling insulted or one of the most respected elderly seniors of my time ducking out.
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To everyone that replied to this post thank you.
I had a nice time reading all of your posts.
This topic has grown bigger than I expected.
My apologies if it became a flame war, that was never my intention.
The main reason I created this post is: many others, myself included we tend to blame Blizzard writters for the story inconsistencies.
I my case for not fitting my ideal of the honourable Horde.
But that being said when reading the first part of a “Good War” I was baffled not because I believe Sylvanas is right but because Blizzard seems to know their player base, better, than we know ourselves.
I believe each player here is the living embodiment of the lore.
For example:
- Zakkaru: troll lore;
- Arctur: human lore;
- Erevien: Blood Elf lore;
- Zarao: Forsaken lore;
- Kalibas: Night Elf lore;
There are other players but this examples were just given so you have an idea where I am coming from.
With that being said it’s my opinion that the lore is meant to be something the player base wants otherwise it won’t sell.
In example, in legion expansion I loved the concept of Alliance and the Horde working together, but a lot of players voiced their opinion against it. World of Peacecraft they called it.
So Blizzard made BfA.
With that being out of the way, I will clarify my points, which probably will be incomplete.
Sorry it 1:18 and I am writing on my phone. It would be different if I could do it on a laptop, with proper quotes and links.
This is what I can provide you for the moment.
I believe there’s several parts of this narrative that we can relate to.
-
Saurfang mind: that would be me, the honor Horde. The guy who has been in legion and is happy with what the Horde as achieved. Peace is there, no more war.
-
Sylvanas mind: enough being said, everyone that loves her or just hates Anduin and the Alliance.
Now for the parts I quoted.
“I believe the exiles of Gilneas will never forgive the Horde for driving them away. "
- Araphant and everyone that loves, Greymane.
I believe the living humans of Lordaeron think it is blasphemy that my people still hold their city.
- Arctur, Northgrave and everyone that likes Human lore.
I believe the ancient divide between our allies in Silvermoon and their kin in Darnassus is not easily mended.” There was a smile on Sylvanas’s face. It was not a pleasant one.
- Erevien and everyone that loves Blood Elf lore.
- Kalibas and everyone that loves Night Elf lore.
“I believe the Darkspear tribe hasn’t forgotten who drove them from their islands,” she continued.
- Zakkaru and everyone that loves troll lore.
“I believe every orc your age remembers being imprisoned for years in filthy camps, wallowing in despair and surviving on human scraps.
- Every Orc player that hates the Alliance.
" I believe every human remembers the tales of the terrible Horde that caused so much destruction in its first invasion, and I believe they blame every orc for that, no matter what your people have done to redeem yourselves."
- Arctur, Northgrave and everyone that likes human lore again.
“And I remember very well that I and my first Forsaken were once loyal Alliance citizens. We died for that banner, and our reward was to be hunted as vermin.”
- Zarao and everyone that hat loves Sylvanas and Forsaken lore.
The point where my believes in peace are countered by Sylvanas:
“I believe that there will be no permanent peace with the Alliance—not unless we win it on the battlefield on our terms. And believing that, answer this, Saurfang: what use is delaying the inevitable?”By the spirits, she is cold.”
Sylvanas’s eyes did not waver, even in the face of his rage. “If I dedicated myself to peace with the Alliance, would it last a year?”“Yes,” Saurfang said curtly.“How about two years? Five? Ten? Fifty?”Saurfang felt the trap closing in on him, and he did not like it. “We fought side-by-side against the Burning Legion. That creates bonds that are not easily broken.” “Time breaks every bond.” Sylvanas leaned across the table. Her words flew like arrows. “What do you believe? Will peace last five years or fifty?”
Ogrimar defenses in case of Alliance attack:
“We are,” she said. “You are the only living creature I know who has conquered both Stormwind and Orgrimmar, Saurfang. You say a direct attack on Stormwind is impossible with our forces today. Is the same true for the Alliance? Do we have enough natural defenses in Orgrimmar to repel a surprise assault?”No, Saurfang concluded instantly. He rebelled against that thought, but every counterargument he could think of died quickly. Orgrimmar was more exposed than Stormwind. Its port was outside the city walls and thus was vulnerable. The civil war against Garrosh Hellscream had proved that. It would not be simple to crack open Orgrimmar again—Saurfang had spent years making sure of it—but it was possible, and he knew how it could happen. Draw off our navy, land troops in Durotar and Azshara, isolate the city, begin the siege from two directions, wait for the city to starve … “It’s my duty to make sure that doesn’t happen, Warchief.” “And if it does?”Saurfang laughed bitterly. “Then the Horde charges into battle and dies honorably that day, because there will be nothing else left for us but a slow death inside these walls.”
Sylvanas did not laugh with him. “It is my duty to stop that from happening.”
Anduin as the main reason why the Horde should not fear the Alliance:
“The boy in Stormwind will not start a war tomorrow,” Saurfang said.Her eyebrows lowered. “With Genn Greymane in his ear? We will see.”That was a concern, Saurfang had to concede. In the thick of the fighting against the Burning Legion, Greymane had launched a mission to kill Sylvanas. It had gotten some of Stormwind’s few remaining airships destroyed.There were whispers that Greymane had ordered the attack without Anduin’s permission, but as far as Saurfang knew, Greymane had not been punished. The implications of that were troubling, and every possible explanation led to same conclusion: the old worgen would always drive the Alliance toward war against the Horde.Sylvanas’s eyes glittered. “And the boy is becoming a man. What if that man decides that he has no choice but to launch a war on us?”
Consider this just a pure speculation exercise on player character, where the narrative describes each one of us.
That was my point.
It’s a hard exercise, but considering that Blizzard wants to fuel hatred between players of each faction and they already stated continuity doesn’t matter, because it hinders the creators, I would say they did their job.
Sorry for the wall of text.
Have a good night.
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Greymane fans and Sylvanas fans are natural enemies.
Like Saurfang fans and Sylvanas fans!
Or Vol’jin fans and Sylvanas fans!
Or Anduin fans and Sylvanas fans!
Or Sylvanas fans and other Sylvanas fans! Damn Sylvanas fans! They ruined Sylvanas!
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I hope at least Serbia is fine.
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I enjoyed reading it. Those Damm Gilneas fans tho are really the major reason behind most conflicts. Totally enlightening! 
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Totally.
I am like a spark ever seeking to burst into flames that will devour all the heathens.
You either worship Genn or suffer Hala’s wrath.
(I removed a post accidentally, why is it enough to just click on a thrash icon to remove a post? Why doesn’t it ask for a confirmation?)
With Love,
Hala
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Include the mighty Kalibas!
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Kind of Stated by Anduin that the Alliance Military took too strong a hit from the Legion invasion, to fight the Horde.
Thus why you recruit more people into the fold and even accept questionable figures like the Dark Iron, Void elves etc.
the only thing a good war reveals is that Stormwind is more clever build and don’t have an enemy capital breathing down their neck, like Orgrimmar does.
By taking away that Capital the Alliance lost vital grounding on Kalimdor itself.
Not on the ropes no, just in unfavorable situation, with the Alliance tightning it’s grip and having a very likely victory within a few weeks.
a Victory that was costly to the Alliance forces as a whole.
while the SoD mainly left losses to the Zandalari.
Since the Alliance specifically made sure to lure away the Horde from the City, because else they wouldn’t be able to make it as far as they did.
Hachak’s answer is also pretty simple though:
I can only agree to this part strongly.
and I can only applause the Alliance War campaign story team.
it is a great story, it grants a strong sense of pride in the Faction but still brings up the moral issues to a degree.
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Thank You.
It’s corrected now.
Cheers.
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If you click on the trash icon again, the post returns back.
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Good to know for future reference, thanks ![:heart:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/heart.png?v=6" ":heart:")
The fact that so many people disagree on who is to blame and if Syvlanas is justified or not (even from the horde ranks), doesn’t that prove that they did a good job writing so far?
Yes you can go back and recite all the books and details, but people in game don’t know all the facts. The in game characters know only their own version, their own side of the story, so you can’t just judge their actions based on things that happened but they might not know about. In addition, they are biased from their own experiences and traits.
Let alone the fact that there’s not too much education going around in wow from what I understand, so you can’t expect super sophisticated characters. Most people we get in contact with are battle born. Yes, some desire peace, but some others desire war and the fact that many players desire war justifies hostilities to a good extend.
Finally, dont expect game figures to make only good choices. People make bad choices all the time. Even bad choices for their own standards.
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Will you abandon the church of Greymane and finally accept Sargeras as your lord and savior?
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As I said skirmishes were already taking place, Silithus, an Alliance airship attacked the warchief in Stormheim - it’s not like she just guessed Horde may be attacked… the attacked were already occurring.
I’m not saying who’s fault the war is, I’m just saying there were already signs the war was back.
I direct you to your reply;
Ignoring the fact that such skirmishes were common occurrences before and during peace times. During Thrall, you had skirmishes in Ashenvale and Arathi. Should we go to war on that account? Oh, also, love the Stormheim part.
The Warchief ditched the Alliance king to die, didn’t explain it, then abandoned the Horde to fend for itself as she gallivanted on a val’kyr hunt! Such Warchief, much leadership!
Further more, Sylvanas herself says that the “Boy in Stormwind will not start a war tomorrow.”
But sure, let us escalate skirmishes into a full war unto extinction, that makes sense! So much sense!
“What do you mean I escalated skirmishes into a full out war unto extinction? THE SIGNS TOLD ME TO DO IT!”
According to this logic, the US and the USSR should have gone to war. ALL THE SIGNS WERE THERE!
Direct yourself back to my reply! You also absolutely neglected my argumentation that Sylvanas can not possibly know what the Alliance is thinking, so direct yourself to my other reply too!
The best thing is that Sylvanas does not even address the current situation, she just gives a shopping list of crap from the past.
I would call it lies, but the SDB will call it “a creative and understandable interpretation of the truth.”
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