04/11/2018 20:49Posted by BriganteWhere were the Kaldorei when the Troll Druids needed help with the Echo Isles? (A problem that lest we forget, was caused by the Naga, who were the Night Elves fault)
Highborne =/= playable Night Elves
Highborne =/= playable Night Elves
Teldrassil was not a 'sacred' thing to the Druids. It was a direct violation of what they stand for.[/quote]
Teldrassil was cleansed by Malfurion in the Novel Stormrage, the corruption was completely removed and even 2 of the aspects blessed it. It became a sacred home for the Night Elves.
Teldrassil was cleansed by Malfurion in the Novel Stormrage, the corruption was completely removed and even 2 of the aspects blessed it. It became a sacred home for the Night Elves.
04/11/2018 23:49Posted by MälfurionTeldrassil was cleansed by Malfurion in the Novel Stormrage, the corruption was completely removed and even 2 of the aspects blessed it. It became a sacred home for the Night Elves.
Classic example of Blizzard. "Don't tell me, -Show me-" It happen in game? Nope. So , kind of their failing. In fact, no, no Kind of about it. That is Blizzards failing. I'd say they should update Teldrassil to show the fact it is no longer corrupt, but frankly that feels a bit redundant now. BUt hey, they could still update Exodar and Silvermoon zones! Here's hoping! (Never gonna happen)
Facts remain, it -was- a corruption of nature, and happened after those other incidents, the cleansing. Where was the Cenarion Circle to help when it is the Horde Druids having a problem? Hmm?
Ermm, Countless ones through history? Sparing one sole foe to carry back word is an ancient tactic, it is actually more damaging psychologically than killing them all.
Yes, but for that to have effect, you need it to bbe 27th time, not first time.
Think you'll find Anduin actually states the Alliance lost a lot of troops at Broken Shores
Both Alliance and Horde lost troops on Broken Shore. They needed to show us that Alliance was furthermore weakened.
How many Alliance flying ships with magic guns is that again?
I was meaning to re-introduce Jaina to the story.
And to answer your question, the exact same number where Horde had decent story and Alliance didn't.
Ermm...you do know the Alliance already -has- gotten lands back and the Horde has not, right? The Night Elves BTFO the Horde into small pockets in Darkshore and Ashenvale.
Oh, are the missions canon? I don't think so. The existence of a warfront in Darkshore means that there is a big Horde presence there, and not a "small pocket"
05/11/2018 01:51Posted by Brigante"Don't tell me, -Show me-" It happen in game? Nope. So , kind of their failing. In fact, no, no Kind of about it.
Actually in he last quest in Teldrassil you cleanse it from the last vestige of Xavius.
05/11/2018 02:13Posted by CiptztOh, are the missions canon? I don't think so. The existence of a warfront in Darkshore means that there is a big Horde presence there, and not a "small pocket"
Table missions are probably not canon, at least some are completely hilarious that they can't be right. Until further confirmation they should just be treated as flavour text and not much more.
Like that mission about the Alliance building a small non-fortified outpost between ORGRIMMAR and RAZOR HILL.
Yes...that's going to end well for the Alliance
/facepalm
Yes...that's going to end well for the Alliance
/facepalm
You don't think he looks powerful in that video?
[/quote]
I was not referring to the video I was referring to what happens in Val'sharah and after the video, when Nathanos stops them and mocks them by resurrecting fallen night elves for the Forsaken.
By lore standards, at that distance Both Tyrande and Malfurion would have been able to insta kill him. Tyrande was able to kill Saurfang with the light had she wanted (read Elegy), Malfurion could have just buried him and some of the troops.
That is why I say it is a charade. A Bone thrown at NEs to keep them busy while the "real" story unfolds. Let us wait and see how NE are again irrelevant at the end.
I am afraid there is a track record to show how Blizzard intends to use night elves: make others shine.
This time is Nathanos turn, who can by himself hold his ground agains 2 of the most powerful beings in Azeroth.
05/11/2018 07:07Posted by MelienThis time is Nathanos turn, who can by himself hold his ground agains 2 of the most powerful beings in Azeroth.
As I already said in response to Mälfurion's post: "This is very disappointing", and it would be even more disappointing, were Blizzard to use the Nelves (again) as sacrifical lambs, so to speak, to further the Forsaken plot.
Nathanos should have gone down, leaving only Sylvanas to fend for herself. Or, at least, Lor'danel firmly regained by the Night Elves while pushing the Hordies towards Ashenvale. Then, and only then, would Nathanos' survival be in any way tolerable.
But Blizzard may equate Nathanos to Malfurion (which would say it all about their lore department), i.e. 2 alive on the Nelf side equals 2 alive on the Forsaken side, and bingo: the kiddies are happy.
One last time: Nathanos should have gone down, and it is most disappointing that he did not.
05/11/2018 07:36Posted by Leafie05/11/2018 07:07Posted by MelienThis time is Nathanos turn, who can by himself hold his ground agains 2 of the most powerful beings in Azeroth.
As I already said in response to Mälfurion's post: "This is very disappointing", and it would be even more disappointing, were Blizzard to use the Nelves (again) as sacrifical lambs, so to speak, to further the Forsaken plot.
Nathanos should have gone down, leaving only Sylvanas to fend for herself. Or, at least, Lor'danel firmly regained by the Night Elves while pushing the Hordies towards Ashenvale. Then, and only then, would Nathanos' survival be in any way tolerable.
But Blizzard may equate Nathanos to Malfurion (which would say it all about their lore department), i.e. 2 alive on the Nelf side equals 2 alive on the Forsaken side, and bingo: the kiddies are happy.
One last time: Nathanos should have gone down, and it is most disappointing that he did not.
I have the feeling they are trying to establish Nathanos as the future Foresaken leader. The dark lady for better or worse is not going to be around much longer.
We will hold this ground, for the Horde.02/11/2018 22:49Posted by ПризраклесаSylvanas we are coming for you!
05/11/2018 08:37Posted by BeherWe will hold this ground, for the Horde.02/11/2018 22:49Posted by ПризраклесаSylvanas we are coming for you!
You mean, like that? ^^
04/11/2018 10:57Posted by MälfurionPTR was updated dear, Nathanos pretty much almost dies until the 2 Valkyr interfere and heal him as well buff his damage, even with them backing him up the Night Warrior and Malfurion send him running for the hills screaming retreat.
PTR was updated dear, Nathanos pretty much almost dies until the 2 Valkyr interfere and heal him as well buff his damage, even with them backing him up the Night Warrior and Malfurion send him running for the hills screaming retreat.Ground held.
02/11/2018 22:49Posted by ПризраклесаSylvanas we are coming for you!
This cinematic was actually best thing after one of Ysera's death.
Malfurion said : tell her: "we are comming". Not for her, but overall, for horde.
You mean, like that? ^^04/11/2018 10:57Posted by MälfurionPTR was updated dear, Nathanos pretty much almost dies until the 2 Valkyr interfere and heal him as well buff his damage, even with them backing him up the Night Warrior and Malfurion send him running for the hills screaming retreat.
[/quote]
Has not this happened before? War of Thorns anyone? I feel they have a story in mind which is basically: Horde is bloody killing everyone, even civilians for sport and wiping the floor with anyone opposing them. Then they put it in PTR, and even from their biased point of view it is quickly clear that they went overboard...
05/11/2018 06:31Posted by Sylvianna05/11/2018 02:13Posted by CiptztOh, are the missions canon? I don't think so. The existence of a warfront in Darkshore means that there is a big Horde presence there, and not a "small pocket"
Table missions are probably not canon, at least some are completely hilarious that they can't be right. Until further confirmation they should just be treated as flavour text and not much more.
05/11/2018 06:55Posted by SylviannaLike that mission about the Alliance building a small non-fortified outpost between ORGRIMMAR and RAZOR HILL.
Yes...that's going to end well for the Alliance
/facepalm
That not how it works.
The mission table is canon until proven otherwise, not the other way round. Not matter how stupid it can be.
05/11/2018 10:25Posted by MoontearMalfurion said : tell her: "we are comming". Not for her, but overall, for horde.
I would dearly love this to be the case. I would absolutely love Malfurion and Tyrande's desire for vengeance to just stomp all over Anduin's attempts to run the war in a just and honest fashion, because that would create some conflict within the Alliance ranks and might threaten to make their war narrative interesting.
Sadly I don't think it's going to happen. I think the "you" Malfurion refers to is Sylvanas, and they're going to follow Anduin's lead as they always have done. I really, really hope I'm wrong though.
05/11/2018 10:43Posted by Owlsong05/11/2018 10:25Posted by MoontearMalfurion said : tell her: "we are comming". Not for her, but overall, for horde.
I would dearly love this to be the case. I would absolutely love Malfurion and Tyrande's desire for vengeance to just stomp all over Anduin's attempts to run the war in a just and honest fashion, because that would create some conflict within the Alliance ranks and might threaten to make their war narrative interesting.
Sadly I don't think it's going to happen. I think the "you" Malfurion refers to is Sylvanas, and they're going to follow Anduin's lead as they always have done. I really, really hope I'm wrong though.
It might happen, though. If Tyrande finds out that Anduin freed Saurfang from prison, I'm quite certain that she won't take that lightly.
05/11/2018 10:45Posted by AradinaIt might happen, though. If Tyrande finds out that Anduin freed Saurfang from prison, I'm quite certain that she won't take that lightly.
That would signal a return to the wilful, self-possessed badass Warrior Priestess Tyrande from Warcraft 3, the one who tells Malfurion to !@#$ when he complains about releasing Illidan then goes and does it anyway. I'd like that.
It'd also be a cool WC3 call-back; Tyrande is the rash, decisive warrior who firges ahead for her people, Malfurion is the temperate and contemplative Druid who cools her more hot-headed decisions. Tyrande goes ballistic that Anduin released Saurfang from prison, storms into a war council meeting, and tears a strip off the boy king right in front of everyone. Malfurion enters behind her and stands watching as she rants and raves at Anduin, with everyone expecting him to step in and calm Tyrande down at some point...
... except he doesn't. He's seen too much that he holds dear destroyed in the last few years and is thoroughly sick of always giving ground. Instead of reeling Tyrande in, Malfurion just nods along as she yells at Anduin until the boy-king starts to cry, then both of them walk out of the throne room together, perhaps with a little parting shot at Anduin for his weakness and failures. Next thing there are reports of Night Warriors, Druids, and Ancients ransacking every Horde settlement in Ashenvale and slaughtering everyone they find within, with no heed for wether they're soldiers or civilians. Anduin, in turn, goes ballistic when he finds out about this and sets out to bring Tyrande and Malfurion back to the reservation - and suddenly we have a %^-*ing Alliance story with conflict and nuance and omfg that would be amazing.
I really hope it happens. I doubt it will :(
05/11/2018 10:56Posted by Owlsong05/11/2018 10:45Posted by AradinaIt might happen, though. If Tyrande finds out that Anduin freed Saurfang from prison, I'm quite certain that she won't take that lightly.
That would signal a return to the wilful, self-possessed badass Warrior Priestess Tyrande from Warcraft 3, the one who tells Malfurion to !@#$ when he complains about releasing Illidan then goes and does it anyway. I'd like that.
It'd also be a cool WC3 call-back; Tyrande is the rash, decisive warrior who firges ahead for her people, Malfurion is the temperate and contemplative Druid who cools her more hot-headed decisions. Tyrande goes ballistic that Anduin released Saurfang from prison, storms into a war council meeting, and tears a strip off the boy king right in front of everyone. Malfurion enters behind her and stands watching as she rants and raves at Anduin, with everyone expecting him to step in and calm Tyrande down at some point...
... except he doesn't. He's seen too much that he holds dear destroyed in the last few years and is thoroughly sick of always giving ground. Instead of reeling Tyrande in, Malfurion just nods along as she yells at Anduin until the boy-king starts to cry, then both of them walk out of the throne room together, perhaps with a little parting shot at Anduin for his weakness and failures. Next thing there are reports of Night Warriors, Druids, and Ancients ransacking every Horde settlement in Ashenvale and slaughtering everyone they find within, with no heed for wether they're soldiers or civilians. Anduin, in turn, goes ballistic when he finds out about this and sets out to bring Tyrande and Malfurion back to the reservation - and suddenly we have a %^-*ing Alliance story with conflict and nuance and omfg that would be amazing.
I really hope it happens. I doubt it will :(
Not gonna lie, but I'm really into something like this happening! Bringing an inner conflict in the Alliance is a good way to mirror what the Horde is currently going through. Plus, Blizzard has the oppertunity to do this now. However, I am not entirely for the idea that Tyrande, Malfurion and the Night Elves slaughtering civilians. To me, that just doesn't sit right.
Also, I doubt Anduin would start to cry. I think he'll realize what's going on and how Tyrande is feeling, cause honestly, Anduin doesn't strike me as someone who starts to cry when he's being yelled at. Yes, he is sensitive. Yes, he has emotions. But that's not a bad thing. I think this is something that Anduin can learn from, and get some experience as his future years as King of the Alliance.
Again, IF this is how things will turn.
04/11/2018 22:21Posted by CyndaneHighborne =/= playable Night Elves
Well, they kind of are. They'd be the Magic caste of the Kaldorei that were readmitted into Kaldorei society, only one segment of them were exiled, the one led by Dath'remar Sunstrider. Night Elf Mages, basically.
Now it was a hyperbolic question, as obviously the Naga are bad news, but you can't deny that the Night Elves (Alright, Azshara) caused the Naga.
You could say "That was just one person" and you'd be -right-, but then the Worgen were also caused by "Just one person" who was a Night Elf, and yet they seem to be all over taking responsibility for that and helping the Gilneans out, I mean they even took them into their own city.
Could be that they have learned from the mistake of not taking responsibility for the errors of the past, that's plausible, but even so, two examples of Problems the Night Elves caused. One they 'fixed', the other they ignored.
05/11/2018 02:13Posted by CiptztYes, but for that to have effect, you need it to bbe 27th time, not first time.
For there to be a 27th time, there -has- to be a first time, by definition.
05/11/2018 02:13Posted by CiptztBoth Alliance and Horde lost troops on Broken Shore. They needed to show us that Alliance was furthermore weakened.
Anduin does say it though. The Legion war weakened the Alliance. Perhaps this is because the Horde pulled out when the situation was grim, perhaps it is because it seems to have been primarily Alliance that went to Argus, I don't know which, but he does remark that the Legion War took an especially heavy toll on the Alliance armies, prior to the attack on Lordaeron.
05/11/2018 02:13Posted by CiptztAnd to answer your question, the exact same number where Horde had decent story and Alliance didn't.
Lets clarify here. What do you mean by 'Decent Story'? So far, BfA is not a decent story for the Horde. They're consistently being smashed with the Villain bat, and broken apart. Legion was not a 'Decent Story' either, Legion was pretty much 'Alliance and Pals save the universe'. We got some good Genn and Sylvanas interaction, and Liadrin did stuff in Suramar, but that is -it- as far as Horde story went. WoD? "Lets go kill Orcs!" MoP? That was interesting for both Factions, perhaps because it was an entirely neutral area. MoP was good for that, but even so, I wouldn't say the Horde story was 'Better'. I would agree that 'Robocat' was an absolute travesty and insult to the Alliance, I remember playing it on my Human Warrior and being "WTF! Is that It?" In comparison to the Horde Scenario in the same patch it was extremely weak, and there were many ways it could have been improved. But then, the Alliance did get to siege Orgrimmar, so, the -second- time the Alliance gets to make the Horde look weak. We even got the Saturday morning cartoon good guy waving his finger and going "Don't be a Bad Guy again" ending, but sure, that's great story.
The thing is, what you describe as 'Good Story' is basically the Horde being ripped apart, or smashed down.
You must remember the howls of indignation when this happened to the Night Elves, despite them -alone- going against the whole Horde. What you call 'Good story' is basically "We get to trash the Horde, and they have internal difficulties, and so they get better narrative"
I mean if you -want- that on the Alliance, that's cool. Would be nice to play the Horde actually getting a big Win, but the instant Blizz move in that direction, People complain. I mean the cinematic -shows- One. Let me just emphasise that, -One- Alliance Hero just going through a group of Horde soldiers like paper and people are -still- complaining about it? What is it you want? You want Horde story complexity, but don't want to suffer a hit? That's what Horde story complexity -IS-.
You want that? You're welcome to it. It has got tiring having it hammered home every expansion since TBC.
05/11/2018 02:13Posted by CiptztActually in he last quest in Teldrassil you cleanse it from the last vestige of Xavius.
I know. I have a Night Elf Druid. All that says is that I was right. It was a corrupted tree, that was an aberration of nature, created for a selfish reason, against the will of the Archdruid. Somehow, that's OK. Grommash going "Draenor is Free" is Not OK. Now I agree with that, Grommash making that claim at the end of WoD is absolutely ridiculous, Dragons going "Yeah, its cool , all OK" however is just fine and dandy.
Nobody has a problem with that.
Really?
It just does seem a bit like "When the Alliance does it, its OK, when the Horde does it, its not OK"
But you want Horde storytelling, go for it. I guarantee this forum will explode when bad things happen to Alliance.