No, windwalker monk
Well, ww is another melee that has huge dmg right now with arms, retri, havoc, feral. You wont need to track cd for rival either, you would need see conditions of party as healer or see kicks as lock or sp though, or in general to see when need to port etc. Anyways if you play more I suggest omniaura and battlegroundenemies if you go in blitz, those two will be quite good in general. You wont need million addons or aura to play m+ or pvp just some few essentials.
yeah but I only played 12 games and was chilling. As said I’m returning, not new, I have some exp… But yeah, Blizz 100% needs to get rid of class bloat, it makes pvp feel really trashy
For me it’s almost about principle tbh. I’m just playing with full clean UI, no addon clutter, and if it’s bad, it is what it is, but I’ll continue to complain at least on Forums XD But honestly, I do a forum break, it’s getting a bit weird, cya in the future. I keep posting in Story Forum though
Shuffle is 6 rounds, if your character shows 12 total for the season (which we have no way of verifying nor anything you say cause you hided everything to not show in check pvp) that would total 2 shuffles, the fact is you cant make 1.8 even if you win both of those shuffles 6-0. Now if you meant 12 shuffles total that sounds more possible and would mean 72 rounds so technically you did 72 matches which would be possible but we have no way of verifying that either if you hide the characters.
The point Im making is that we have someone who is making a lot of strong opinionated takes of how there should be m+ soloqs or how the game should be only shuffles for pvp or how the game should not have any addons at all and also telling us things like “i got x in 12 games without any addons but I know all classes, but Im also returning player” so you are returning player which wouldnt know the meta or you are not returning player with 12 games and know all the classes cause you play the game everyday? Im confused which one is it.
I dont trust anything at this point nor I have any means to verify what you say is true if you hide the characters so Im out as well, but I have no interest of debate this with any who are not affected by it if they dont play it.
If you dont play m+ or pvp then game having addons or soloqs is of no concern to you, its pointless to discuss it, and didnt you just while ago advocate bringing arrows back in retail for hunters or something if I recall right? I mean these are quite wild ideas you are saying.
You do understand that you are trying tell “removing addons will be good” “shuffle is best for pvp” to people that are actually affected negatively by all of this cause they play this content everyday on multiple characters and play these roles that are most harmed by these decisions like healers have no good option right now to even play the game cause of shuffles ruining pvp and deflated arenas.
And now they are speaking of removing addons too which heals need to see conditions on party? You dont play healer and you said you are done with the game after playing 12 shuffles total on one dps spec. But youre now telling how the game should be to people who are actively playing the game and have hundreds of games on bunch of classes and their specs in arena/shuffle/blitz?
I mean I dont see how any of this even has any impact on you if you dont play it, so whats the point to discuss of this. This actually has negative impact on people who play the content. I dont see how it would be for you.
I sincerely hope they burry the whole hero talent/sub spec after TWW!
As much as I LOVE the idea of DotC cat weaving guardian it fails flat on it’s face in hectic encounter/non scripted slow fights, and I hate the whole new Moonkin wannabe identity they’ve forced onto us Bears (since DF), which they hyper focused on with TWW.
IF anything guardian should have shared a sub spec with resto instead of balance and gotten Keeper of the Grove instead of Moonkin 0.5 
But yeah, hero talents in general was a novel, but poorly executed, idea.
2 Likes
I hate hero talents.
2 Likes
Then FFS change the modifier of Corruption from 1… to 2. THERE. SOLVED.
You claim that its not the base damage of the DOT the problem. You claim its “passive healing”. OK. Get those spells and change their modifiers from 1 to 0.5. DONE.
And I dont need to look at “data” to know that. I KNOW for certain, 100% that every single spell and talent has a PvP modifier. ALL OF THEM.
The question is: WHY is the corruption modifier 1 and not 2? YOU have not answered that question. I have atleast put forward a hypothesis. Because blizzard does not want dot specs to dominate. For the same reason they nerf the hell out of tank specs in Arenas.
And they do that type of “tuning” in PvE as well. Look at Aug the state it’s in. For whatever reason, Blizzard dosent want people to play Aug right now.
And that hypothesis IS based on data… the data shows that dot damage is insufficient. And if you dont beleive me… beleive YOURSELF :
THAT is what you said. And saying “too much passive healing” is the same as saying “not enough passive damage”. Which is LITERALLY the definition of a dot. Passive damage.
So I ask again: WHY is the modifier for Corruption 1 and not 2. Or 3. Or whatever. Or… why is the modifier of Passive Healing spells 1 and not 0.5?
And WHY should they change the whole talent tree, wrecking the PvE scene with it… when they can simply change 1 modifier from 1 to 2. Like… WHY…
So …
I might be clueless of PvP. Il give you that.
But you either are not reading me. Or are clueless yourself on how PvP balance is done in the first place.
Agreed. Hero Talents are a bust.
They’re not interesting, not cool.
I hope they’ll remove the system honestly and just give us another row in the actual talent trees, or something.
1 Like
I just had a look at the balance tuning for the 28th of May… I mean…
SHAMAN
Restoration
Farseer: Elemental Reverb now increases Riptide healing by 20% (was 10%). Not applied to PvP combat.
Farseer: Maelstrom Supremacy now increases the healing of Healing Wave, Healing Surge, Wellspring, Downpour, and Chain Heal by 25% (was 15%). Not applied to PvP combat.
Farseer: Offering from Beyond now reduces the cooldown of Riptide by 3 seconds (was 2 seconds). Not applied to PvP combat.
Farseer: Primordial Capacity now increases maximum mana by 10% (was 5%). Not applied to PvP combat.
Farseer: Hydrobubble absorption increased by 25%. Not applied to PvP combat.
Farseer: Hydrobubble now lasts for 15 seconds (was 10 seconds).
Restoration
Earth Shield healing increased by 20% in PvP combat.
Earthliving Weapon healing increased by 20% in PvP combat.
Healing Rain healing increased by 15% in PvP combat.
Totemic: Surging Totem healing increased by 15% in PvP combat.
Totemic: Lively Totems now casts a free Chain Heal at 150% effectiveness in PvP combat (was 100%).
I mean… you might not agree to that balance tuning. But LITERALLY, the lists are 2 different lists. According to what blizzard belleives should be tuned for PvE and PvP separately.
The PvP ones… I dont know… maybe they are warrented. Maybe they are not. There are 2 passive healing spells there (Earth Shield and Earthliving Weapon) that are buffed. Maybe you might agree. Maybe you might dissagree.
So talk with them. And tell them to NERF Earth Shield by 20% (IN PVP COMBAT!!!) if you dont agree with the passive healing this game has. It is STUPID to nerf the base damage for both PvE and PvP of Earth Shield.
So. I will simply revert back to what I said on my post bellow:
I might be clueless about PvP. Sure.
But YOU are clueless about how PvP tuning happens in the first place. There is ZERO reason to touch the talent tree at ALL.
Absolutely. 100%.
But that is not just PvP/PvE. That is also Raid/M+. Raid/PvP(arenas only). Or M+/PvP(BG only)… is far more complex than that. As you suggest.
And it also forces people to reroll in PvE all the time because of it.
Either way. The fact still remains that even though changes to the talent tree are made for PvE in general, PvPers STILL have the option of adapting those talents to PvP combat via the PvP modifiers. Which is a bonus if you ask me, and the point I want to get across with Nadorb.
So I ask you a question, of pure ignorance (cause I dont play RDruid). But just to prove a point:
When the Resto talent tree was changed. Was there anything blizzard could have done (numericacly speaking) to buff certain spells/abilities such that Resto Druid remained more or less competitive, without brocoly and double reju?
Again dude. You lack basic understanding of PvP mechanics. You cannot buff every dot by 100%. Because then some dots will tick as much as direct spells and it will be unhealable. As I said Affli can deal the highest damage on the meter but passive healing and CDs make it irrelevant. You’d need to remove half of the def CDs and passives to make them do something. Buffing dots to the roof would make it unplayable for others. As I said there are things you cannot fix with just tuning. Also tuning is a trap.
These Ele changes happened because Ele redesign happened. Blizzard was cautious with buffing Ele at first because it was performing great in season 1. They did after Elemental post changes was underwhelming. In fact it’s overtuned but anyway.
You cannot tune up certain specs into meta because they cast too much. Shadow for example has a great damage potential but is not played a lot bexause it’s getting completely destoyed by meeles. The only 2 viable casters now are Ele and Mage because they offer a lot of instant damage and good burst. Specs that need to cast a lot can get damage buffs but it won’t help in this heavy meele meta.
It’s like tragic situation of Enha. It has insane damage potential but due to tragic mobility and defensives it doesn’t matter.
And yes you are clueless as your arguments. I know about every PvP tuning that happens because I basically have Wowhead notifications. The difference is I play PvP and you don’t. I know what tuning actually does and that it cannot resolve all problems. You are only theorycrafting and using your imagination that has nothing to do with factual state of the game.
So what?
Buff one. Nerf the other… Passive healing is also “padding healing” you know.
But I am not here to discuss that. I agree. I dont PvP anymore, I had a hypothesis… it might be right. Or wrong. It dosent matter. That is why I called it a hypothesis. Nothing else. So I dont know why its such a big deal for you.
What matters is the following:
You dont like passive healing?
But Blizzard chose to buff it instead. Why +20% in PvP combat? Why not -20% in PvP combat? I DONT KNOW.
I DONT CARE. To be honest.
That is where the solution to the problem is. According to YOU.
But fact of the matter is: there is absolutely ZERO reason to remove earth-shield from the talent tree because you claim that passive healing is too much in PvP. ZERO.
If Blizzard thinks that Earth Shiled is a skill that should not be used at all in PvP. They can literally say, tomorrow, that Earth Shield now heals -3000%. DONE. Nobody would even use a GCD to cast that anymore. Like Healing Rain in Arena… there is no RShaman casting that at the moment.
Because this thread is about the talent tree. And you guys keep talking about PvP combat. While simultaniously having an independant tuning mechanism.
So every time someone sais “dots dont do damage”. Or XYZ heal heals too much… my answer to that is:
SO? Who cares?
Again you are clueless. We are getting into the loop of me showing you are wrong and you keep pushing your imaginary agenda. No tuning is not resolving all the problems. Resto Shaman is and will be the worst performing solo shuffle healer because of it’s design. Because it has plenty of disruptive tools it doesn’t have proper damage mitigation like others. It has to compensate it with it’s tools that is way harder. You cannot tune it’s healing to much because it would be opressive to the other healers.
Tuning is like communism. On paper it’s great but in reality it doesn’t work. So please step down talking about PvP because you have no idea and I’d prefer to discuss it with someone competent in PvP.
And who cares? PvP players care. Warlock players care that are some of the most represented players. By just saying “who cares” you show how dumb your arguments are. If we have 36 specs and some of them are not viable (I’m not talking about everything being top tier) then there is a problem. We aren’t you parsers we don’t need Affliction to be a top spec. We just want it to be viable choice right now. Even B tier is satisfying.
As I said before it’s not my first interaction with you but every single one shows how ignorant you are.
And you think this is a problem in PvP only? Like… you havent heard how Oracle DPriest is performing in M+ right now? And for the record, Oracle DPriest is “OK” according to Blizzard because of it’s Raid performance.
However, the difference between PvE and PvP is that RShaman is the way it is. There is nothing other than the talent tree we have to play with.
PvPers DO have another option however.
Cap totem is too oppressive? OK. Increase its CD in PvP combat. Or reduce its stun duration in PvP combat (to name 1 disruption spell).
RShaman dosent have enough heal absorbs?
Do that. But remove the “not applied to PvP combat”. Or… Earth Shield gives 3% DR. Say… well its 9% in PvP combat.
My point here is that tuning will NEVER be perfect. Not in PvE. Not in PvP. And there will always be a “meta” spec… But PvPers at-least have the OPTION of having their own tuning on top of the regular “PvE tuning”. PvErs… DO NOT have this option.
Why is this so hard to comprehend? And why do you continue to argue something so blatantly obvious?
I dont need to know how PvP works to know that
Exists. All I need to know is how to read. Something you apparently cant. Because you continue to deny it.
Is it? Read replies in this post. Many non-PvP players here share my view. You are in fact this laud minority.
And again I tell you that PvP tuning isn’t resolving most of the problems and you keep posting PvP tuning posts. Dude do you even read what I’m posting. You struggle with knowledge perception. You don’t comprehend what you read. Again this 10% more of less in PvP combat IS NOT RESOLVING THE PROBLEM. You can buff enha damage or healing but it will still be weak because the problem is his worse mobility and defence. Also buffing his healing does nothing because of dampening. Just sit down and stop posting the same thing over and over again because you are ignorant.
What? That Blizzard’s class tuning is lousy at best? That is not surprising is it… But that is not what I am talking about either.
Enh shaman would also improve with more defense and mobility in PvE.
In PvE there is literally only ONE option: Change the talent trees.
In PvP there are TWO options: Change the talent tree. OR… reduce the CD of Astral Shift by 50% to a 60s CD in PvP combat. Would that make Enh perfect? NO. Would that solve all the issues of Enh? NO.
But it remains an OPTION. A “patch” a “help” sort of speak. Something PvPers have, but PvErs DO NOT.
So again. What does this have to do with identifying the problem here? Am I claiming that Enh shamans are fine in PvP? No im not.
I am claiming, ONLY, that the solution to the PvP problem of Enh shaman CAN come from PvP modifiers. It dosent have to come ONLY from changing the talent tree. Unlike PvErs. Which are stuck with the talent tree.
And by the way. I havent even gotten to the 3 PvP specific talents either. Cause they could solve many of these issues with those talents too. RShamans got an extra wall in a PvP talent (the one you burrow underground). But whatever… you apparently cant solve ANY of the PvP issues with PvP specific changes.
Thats impossible according to you. We have to re-work the whole spec to fit PvP… that makes more sense.
Whatever man…
Raid/m+/delves/world content is pve, arena/shuffle/bgb/rbg are pvp. Can just use term pvp/pve when speaking one of them in general it covers it all, just like saying “abilities” would mean all your defensives and cc etc all of it.
Except there is pve specific changes as well on tuning when it reads “this does not apply in pvp” just like there is similar for pvp. Some spells do more in pve and some more in pvp to put it short. There is no specific advantage from this to either of them if changes are talent tree reworks changing talent paths, so that is why I said that the game is more than only pvp/pve tuning, technically they could compensate some talent changes by giving flat xx% buff only in pvp/pve for the spec on something but Ive never seen this happen after talent tree changes ruined something so I doubt they care or are just not capable of doing such, in any case the game is more than only numbers tuning that was the point.
….please rethink that. Waiting for mana is a timeloss. It directly increases the pressure on the group to not fail the timer.
That is not what I read.
What I read from tunning patches is:
As in “general changes to specs”.
And all I read on those is :
I have NEVER read, since PvP got divorced the following sentence:
“Affects only to PvE combat”.
The General changes ARE the PvE changes. And THEN they apply a PvP modifier to it. AND then there is a 2nd page of changes:
What I interpret from this is that they make general PvE changes. And THEN they see if they want to keep it or not in PvP. If they DONT… then they apply the famous “PvP only” tuning. So extra option.
Basically. They tune classes for PvE FIRST. And if that breaks PvP somehow, they apply a modifier to it. So if any of you consider some talent choice (PvE specific) bad for PvP… then what that means is that you guys dont agree with the modifier that should be there. Which is what I have been saying from the very beginning.
I dont see where you see “there are PvE specific changes”. And if you guys want things to work differently, PvE and PvP are so massively different that the only solution is to have a PvP specific talent tree. Or a full 100% divorce. Otherwise we will argue about this PvE vs. PvP situation for ever.
1 Like
My biggest gripe with Hero Talents is how lazy they made it. Maybe my expectations were to high but we just get them. Now i’m a pack leader or a sentinel. Why? I was hoping for more of a Legion artefact type of introduction that actually gave us a reason as to why i got the special talents.
Monks could have gone to Shadowpan Monastery and train to be a Shado pan. Maybe get a nice mog set or weapon to go with it.