We need to talk about DPS warriors

Community General Discussion
1

I will get straight to the point.

Let’s state the facts first.

M+ is one of the major PvE contents. Not everyone has the luxury of having solid guild groups running M+. Thus people have to use PuG feature and this is where the problem comes in.

When you make a PuG group you generally want to pick players with high score(which is an indicator that he/she will also provide great dps contribution to the team) and ideally players with great utility abilities for successful run. The most important utilities would be Bloodlust/Heroism/Time warp etc. and Battle Resurrection. These utilities are almost mandatory as you climb up the m+ key and for a while now DPS warriors really have nothing to be competitive in PuG situations. Let me explain.

Do DPS warriors have essential utilities as you go up the key? No (Battle shout only benefits melee classes)
Do DPS warriors do so much damage to make up for lack of utilities? No
Do DPS warriors have survival kits that are as good as other melee classes(hello ret pally)? No

In all seriousness, in general PuG situations, DPS warriors have no abilities to be competitive with other melee classes. Please do not even mention shockwave, virtually all melee classes have some sort of AoE crowd control and it is such a small utility compared with the ones I mentioned above.

My solution is this. Give DPS warriors Bloodlust. To save Blizzard Developers time, I came up with some preliminary ideas.

Ability name : Fury of Grommash(shout) or Varian’s Resolve(Skull banner style)

so it’s either a shout or a battle standard which gives heroism/bloodlust effect.

Make Warriors Great Again please or at least give them something to be competitive in M+ scene.

My retail characters will not show up in character selection on forum so I had to post it with my old classic character.

5 Likes
2

I advocate for normalization of raid buffs.

Warriors give AP. Mages give intellect. Why not both give main stat instead ?

3 Likes
3

You are saying a better score indicates better dps. I would argue that you are wrong there.
If I do top dps but I only live 5 seconds its still bad.
I rather be mediocre regarding dps with optimal uptime and knowledge on tactics, so I can uphold my high rating.
Also: tanks and healers are outside this equation, wich I dont like either.
Every class has its pro’s and cons, so I would suggest kindly that you deal with it as it is. It will change sooner or later.
Like we say in Warhammer: pick and play what you like, not what is meta. Meta’s change, your bought stuff wont.

4

Them being unique is an incentive to bring warriors so i dont think this would solve anything.

1 Like
5

Main stat buff is unique.

6

No Ms Rala, I did not say “a better score indicates better dps”

I used the word contribution.

“high score(which is an indicator that he/she will also provide great dps contribution to the team”

What this means is that in order to have high score a player has to survive and dish out enough dps to successfully complete a key. This indicates 1. he knows the tactics 2. he survives the mechanics 3. executes his dps

7

sorry to tell you this, you are wrong here defensive stance alone is cooldown level strong at a 3second cd, Spell reflect is a DR + you deal damage and there is a lot of places and times it is very strong on a 25second cd.

There is a lot of things that i think warriors need but claiming that warrior does have weak survivability is false.

8

i would prefer something else and not bl. i dont think it woudl change anything.

perhabs give dps wariors ( maybe tanks aswell)

mass spellreflection.

9

We need everything. I am stuck in the queue for hours. I can’t join a single +12 key!

1 Like
10

Warriors not having Bloodlust, or Heroism, is the most tone-deaf decision ever. The ability, and lore, is 100% made for a Berserker (horde mostly) and/or Captain (allies) class such as them.

However I think they should give all tanking specs (not classes) lust/hero- and strip BDK, Bear and PPala of their CR. Why else take other tanks, lol.

2 Likes
11

While score is not a good indicator, but along with item level they are the only indicators we have in a PUG environment. When a key is listed, and 20 DPS players apply and you don’t know any of them, the leader usually invites based on those

12

Facts:

Arms warrior’s only major survival kit : Die by the sword 2min CD(1.5 min with 2 points invested in talents–>mistake here. it’s 1 point invested so edited here. DF talent had 2, TWW is now 1): Parry chance increased by 100% and reduces all damage you take by 30% for 8 sec.

Fury warrior’s only major survival kit : Enraged Regeneration 2min CD: Reduces damage taken by 30%, and Bloodthirst restores an additional 20% health. Usable while stunned or incapacitated. Lasts 8 sec.

That is it.

Spell reflection (25sec CD) is most of the time used to reflect just that - a single spell (and not even all spells can be reflected or does damage back to target) and yes it reduces magic damage but you still take damage which can kill you or leave you on the brink of death. And yes that is even with Defensive stance on.

Impending Victory 25 sec CD: heals you for 30% of your maximum health.

ok let’s now look at paladin

Divine Shield: This is a total immunity for 8 seconds.

Shield of Vengeance: Creates a barrier of holy light that absorbs [30 / 100 * Total health * (1 + Versatility)] damage for 10 sec.

When the shield expires, it bursts to inflict Holy damage equal to the total amount absorbed, divided among all nearby enemies.

Divine Protection: Reduces all damage you take by 20% for 8 sec. Usable while stunned. 1 min cd? wow

Blessing of Protection : makes your target invulnerable to all physical damage for 10 seconds and also removes all physical debuffs from the target.

and many more utilities which can even protect others.

Wait? he can heal on demand??

Lay on Hands : Simply heal the target for an amount equal to your maximum health. Can be casted on yourself

Comparing DPS warrior’s defensive CD to Ret Pally’s is an insult to paladin.

13

You do know that spell reflect is a 20% magic damage reduction right?
This is the exact same amount of damage reduction that say paladin Divine protection is are 1min cooldowns and spell reflect is a 20% dr (most attacks are magic damage) on a 25second cooldown.

Shield of vengence is 30% sure but it is still 1min cooldown layer Def stance on top of spell reflect and you have 35% damage reduction.

Def stance
A defensive combat state that reduces all damage you take by 15%, and all damage you deal by 10%.

Remember this ability.

irrelevant damage compared to even just getting 2 spell reflects in a dungeon.

At a 5min cooldown you are using it to mitigate big hit you are not getting the value from it over time stop being ignorant.

A copout and you know it.

Tell me how many abilities are physical?
Also 5min cooldown.

Spell reflect is 25seconds doing the exact same hmmm you are incredibly biased or you literally do not understand how things work.

A 30% damage reduction for 8seconds and a immunity to physical damage on 1.5min cd.
You will always take that talent because of the 2% vers it gives.

Then we have this small thing called ignore pain
ignoring 50% of damage taken, up to (Total health * 30 / 100) total damage prevented.
A 50% damage reduction until 30% of your hp is taken on a 1second cooldown (as you talked about things like healing that you would not do as ret unless you where literally about to die this is a very strong button if you need to survive.
Combo it with def stance and you have 15% damage reduction and a 50% reduced damage until you take 30% of your hp in damage.
This is effectively a 30% damage reduction.

The m+ talents right now chooses to go away from this to have Fueled by Violence You are healed for 85% of the damage dealt by Deep Wounds.

A 7min cooldown

14

You should probably learn your class a bit better.

Ayellin explained most of it.

2 Likes
15

@ Ayellin

Why are you angry that ret pally has more defensive cd than warrior? It’s good to be ret pally in season 1 TWW keep playing pal!

@ Dejarous

Ad hominem - you did not refute my points but went on personal attack on me. Nothing new under the sun right?

16

I am not angry you are being ignorant and wrong about what you are talking about.

You are actually just factually wrong.

Of all the things to complain about warrior defensive are one of the things that warrior is good at.

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I gleefully disagree. I know that a ret paladin has far better defensive toolkits than a dps warrior. You are welcome to disagree and have your own ‘opinions’ I will stick with the facts thank you very much :smiley:

18

You do know facts requires to be factual to be facts right?

The fact is that you are wrong it is not opinion it is facts.
There are less buttons but it does not mean it is worse.
You even did the bad thing of not even counting Ignore Pain a massive tool for defensive when you need it.
You did not mention def stance.
You did not even know how Spell reflect works. (just fyi the 20% damage reduction lasts 5seconds no matter if you reflect a spell)
Just to name a few things.

19

ok you keep mentioning ignore pain so I will give you another fact. Rage spent on Ignore pain ‘used to’ reset the tactician on Arms warrior but it’s nerfed so it does not reset it. Which means people just use the other option. There a fact for you.

Look I am sorry that I complimented ret paladin over dps warriors man. I did not know it would make you this upset. I cannot ‘make’ you accept the fact, it’s your choice so there is not much I can do now except that… well to tell you that facts do not change… I am sorry

Keep playing retribution paladin which does excellent job! good dps excellent defensive kits and utility! it’s all good

20

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XFNyaRCnq37ABVzk#fight=37&type=summary&source=869
Number 1 log on Grim Batol uses it.

If you need it for defense you use it.

Number 2 log does not use it.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xZbT74ghPNwAHkpL#fight=7&type=summary&source=1

If you do not need it you do not use it.

Correct this is why we know for sure that you are wrong in your assessment.
Facts do not change you are either ignorant or actually pretending you are right, the reality the facts is that you are wrong just because you are not able to admit it does not change the fact that you are wrong.

Why are you so angry that i actually called you out on your lie?