Tanks already have spell block
A skill used by a person or two does not prove what I said was wrong.
I gave you fact - why are you not able to accept it? it’s like talking to flat earth believer.
Ignore pain was widely used by dps warriors to reset the tactician before they got nerfed. This is a fact you cannot just ‘ignore’
As for the high keys you would need every defensive toolkit available but not everyone can do level 15 or 14 key just like you posted in your log. You brought a data anomaly and push it as a general usage. really are you going that pathetic? are you doing this just to deceive yourself that somehow you were right? you need help man…
I will say this one last time
- A dps paladin has better survival rate than a dps warrior with their defensive toolkit-
You cannot just blind yourself to facts. Please help yourself. Case closed.
“It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person” - Bill Murray
I am not saying you’re stupid, but I cannot make you accept facts. That’s your choice.
Nothing personal about saying you need to know what tools you have at your disposal.
If you think it reflects badly on you… learn your class.
1 Like
"You should probably learn your class a bit better.
Ayellin explained most of it."
Yup - you assumed that I did not know my class without any evidence to back it up. Your comments had nothing to do with my points but it was rather an attack on my intelligence(without any proof that I did not know my class). Now you’re insisting it was not ad hominem but alas your comment was not deleted so it remains as evidence of your intention.
I am surrounded by people who cannot accept their fault and move on but make excuses upon excuses. In case you were wondering, yes I am talking about you.
Please for the love of wow I just made a post about dps warrior and bloodlust. Get over it ok?
You failed to mention the main benefit of spell reflect. An omission I’ll take as ignorance on the matter. Denial - a river in Africa…
“Spell reflection (25sec CD) is most of the time used to reflect just that - a single spell (and not even all spells can be reflected or does damage back to target) and yes it reduces magic damage but you still take damage which can kill you or leave you on the brink of death. And yes that is even with Defensive stance on.”
I specifically mentioned the benefits. all of it. wow you really are desperate aren’t you?
Roses are red
Violets are blue
Dejarous is not right in head
And I pity this creature
Nope… it’s not, other classes, bar druids and priests don’t need to sacrifice anything while having stronger effects.
Yeah… that won’t save you when the mobs have decided to machine gun you down.
Easy concept.
Raging Blood
Ignite the fury in your allies with a mighty roar, increasing haste by 30%.
Shoutout to the AoE spells just not getting reflected which is certainly a ? Moment, but things like chains on last boss of NW does ?
1 Like
Yes Necrotic Wake’s last boss’ skill which roots the target can be spell reflected which I am sure you know. (I write this comment just in case you were asking a question) Yeah you know how spell reflection works right.
I cannot post the link but there is a spreadsheet which lists all skills that can be reflected. Google keyword I used was “spell reflection tww” and it should lead you to a reddit page with the title “Spell reflect spreadsheet : r/CompetitiveWoW”
While I can agree that currently Warrior does not really make up for the lower DPS through their utility, some of these facts don’t really add up. You might call it nit-picky, but when you are discussing facts, fact of the matter is that it should be true.
- M+ is a pillar of WoW content (true), “Thus ppl have to PuG”; is not true.
- In M+ you genererally want to pick players with high score, is true.
- The most important utilities would be BL and CR. Content based, but is arguably true. (generic, you would say interupts and stops are more important per se, but I get your point).
- Warriors have essential utilities? Yes, warrior do bring the essential stops and disruption tools. Spellreflect break tankbusters, Shockwave and Stormbolt are strong control tools. We bring the short CD interupt and if ever needed for the comp, we can specialise further.
- Do warrior make up for the lack of specialised utility (dispells, purge, so on) with raw damage output? Arguably not. As more specialised utility classes also bring more damage than warrior. The key issue being: They do more.
- Warrior have a survival kit not as good as other melee. Arguable, but warrior do beat out rogues, hunter, feral, havoc and monk. Then we can argue if they beat DK or Paladin. Generally I would say Warrior got one of the most solid and strongest defencive kits for yourself.
In PuG situations, I will agree that DPS warrior isn’t really competitive. Simply because we don’t have the raw output to make up for our lack of points mentioned above. Sadly, I don’t believe heroism would solve this, as Heroism is already brought by the classes that already do our job - just better. Sure, Heroism might make it easier to get into keys in the low to mid-end of keys. Still, in no way would it affect our bring rate (other than as a tank). It is kind of a throwing a bucket of water into a basin, when the competition is a fully setup Washer. When give a choice, people will chose the Washer no matter if the basin and washer both come with water.
Warrior is still the less optimal choice. The only fix is to adjust the main and essential problem when it comes to DPS, being the DPS brought. If Warrior bring the DPS, the specialised utility will be brought by someone else.
Warrior at its core as specs are really solid. All issues come by lack of throughoutput. Goal is not 5 warriors. It is that warrior get the DPS flex spot more often. Heroism isn’t it. AP buff increase or other doo-da’s would help push a specialised comp to bring warrior. Yet, simple fix is aura buffs or revert of AoE burst nerfs.
1 Like
Oh yes I’m quite aware, it just boggles the mind that you (not you in particular) think some things would be spell reflectable that aren’t, and vice versa.
1 Like
I respect your in depth analysis and your post but I just wanted to point out a few things (this is not an attack on you or your post - just saying)
Of course “M+ is major contents so people have to pug” is false. However, that is not what I said(or meant).
Original post
“M+ is one of the major PvE contents. Not everyone has the luxury of having solid guild groups running M+. Thus people have to use PuG feature and this is where the problem comes in.”
What I meant was that those people who do not run a guild groups for M+ have no choice but to use PuG features if they want to run M+.
Of course they could join a guild to run M+ but you catch my original meaning right. Joining a guild and running M+ run may not be streamlined for a lot of people.
I should have said ‘those’ in front of people in my original post. Now I am sorry that I hadn’t.
Ok and next point -
Yes Mass AoE Stun and Single Target Stun (+Mass Fear and Mass AoE slow if you decide to become a utility machine) are essential. However, that functionality can be provided by other classes too. What I meant was those Stops and Disruption tools are much more commonplace among dps classes than Battle ress and Bloodlust are. Since other dps classes can bring those stops and disruption tools to the table, I deemed warriors’ stops and disruption tools did not grant warriors edge over other classes when it comes to PuG.
"The most important utilities would be Bloodlust/Heroism/Time warp etc. and Battle Resurrection. These utilities are almost mandatory as you climb up the m+ key "
I mentioned this to build up my next point, that BR and Bloodlust are THE essential utilities. I should have mentioned specifically that BR and BL were essential utilities on relative terms as warriors do have those stop and disruption utilities but then I thought I had my point clear.
Ok and next point - I am somewhat hesitant on warriors beating rogues, hunter, feral, havoc and monk on defensive abilities. I do not play all these other classes but monk for instance I remember that they have a solid damage reduction CD with a longer cd, a magic reduction CD, on top of that a Karma and self heal. But hey everyone is entitled to their own opinions so I will just say that’s what I think. When I first made my original post I had in my mind other plate melee classes (Ret Pally’s amazing total immunity and self heal, DK’s death strike and damage reduction with stun immunity + anti magic shell)
Yeah they will probably buff warriors by flat % at the end of the TWW expansion. Seen it too many times.
Thing is it affects tank balance cause prot would be the only hero tank.
Anyways, i don’t think that is what warriors need. I think your utility is already good. Spell reflect, single target and aoe stun and aoe fear that serves as a stop as well on top of the AP buff, leaps and charges.
It’s the 3m ability that self purges that needs a lower cd, imo. Think warrior will be fine with that going down to 1-1.5m.
1 Like
That other classes have too. That lasts way longer, and it makes DR come in fast if you shockwave and stormbolt something
Id much prefer shockwave to knock the targets upwards like it does with colossus but as baseline
2 Likes
Ok sir, I appreciate your input. thanks a lot!
Yes, they are very good stops. I don’t think they are missing in the utility department, unlike the OP.
I think they are slightly lacking on the defensive side, which can be solved with the change i mentioned.
1 Like
20% heal won’t do much, I’d much prefer a flat % reduced damage taken.
2 Likes
It’s not so much the heal, though that helps, but the ability to self purge. There are many deadly debuffs around. Being able to self dispel is a life saver and a sanity saver for your healer. It’s a trifecta as well. Poisons, diseases and curses. The hybrids are always missing one of those 3. So, it would be quite good with a 1m cd.
1 Like
Bliz is busy right now mate taking care of the boring enhancement and shamans in general.
3 Likes
Cool you are claiming that you do not know your class and do not want to use your own toolkit as you should do then you throw EVERYTHING the otherside has and claim but if you use all those in your toolkit you are better.
What if that person does THE EXACT same thing as YOU do and do not use those things
You are literally saying but but if i do not use those toolkit then these other things are better if they use their own toolkit do you not see how stupid this sounds?
By using that quote you are literally trying to make the claim that i am stupid what is funny with that for me is that you are in your words here saying you are stupid because you do not understand what you actually are doing.
Oh and fyi do you want to know the score i got when trying out for Mensa?
Cool you do not want to understand that is up to you but stop complaining then as you are factually wrong.
And this do NOT MATTER because it is a DEFENSIVE tool you are ignoring.
It exists and you are choosing not to use it then complaining about not enough defensives.
You mean like yourself who linked EVERY SINGLE ability paladin has and claimed it was common usage to use it all the time on everything.
While at the same time you are personally saying you are too lazy to click your buttons that does the EXACT SAME JOB!!!
Damn, you sound angry!
Anyways i don’t think warrior needs more defensives but won’t mind more utility.