I don’t mean ratings or rio I mean the fact I cleared M+ 10 back then and you don’t because for some reason as you said you didn’t try. I cleared it on beta as well. M+ is easier that’s no doubt. All numbers are supporting my thesis. That’s the thing that you are assuming in the same fashion someone who assumed that +15 is as hard as getting 1800 cr - it’s not.
Is there a solution. I can think of one but it’s rather not going to happen. Instead of making every M+ dropping gear why can’t we bring back Justice and Valor in the same fashion Honor and Conquest works. Why can’t M+ have it’s own ladder with RIO introduced into the game if anyone use it anyway. This way you can somehow make M+ and PvP gearing equal and Raiding gear separate because noone has problem with raiding gear as long as raid trinkets are nerfed because Raids are really difficult compared to M+.
Everyone knows it’s not going to happen because Blizz hates vendors while they introduced 3 or 4 of them in BFA.
I’m sorry, but I can’t really have this discussion.
You made a claim about numbers.
I provided numbers showing the contrary to be true.
You now say the numbers support your thesis.
And then you say something about someone assuming equal difficulty of +15 and 1800 rating.
I’ve made no such assumption. I’ve said the difficulties and rewards for both are fine – not that they’re identical or equal.
I’m out. Like I said, we disagree, and that’s fine.
If 60% of people can clear M+15 and 17% only as 1750 exp (so not even 1800) then it means that M+15 is easier to achieve. I don’t know where are your doubts. So your numbers support my thesis. I didn’t bring them you did. I don’t know what you’re trying to achieve now but if you want to provoke me - you won’t because I know you and I know what you ususally do. Right now you’re doing literally everything catching every opportunity not to agree with me.
The thing is that honor gear is timegated with 7 weeks and you can trust me that every PvP player who has time will spend it playing M+ few weeks into the expansion because it will be the easiest way to get the best gear to push that PvP rating. The thing with PvP is that you need gear to get gear unless ladder inflates and you will be playing vs newbs in the begining/mid season.
Mumbles something about participation percentage and percentage of percentage…
Then why people do M+ even though they hate it. Because otherwise they won’t be viable.
I’m pretty sure player participation in PvP is not driven by difficulty alone.
Like I said, I think we’re done discussing. We disagree, so the details don’t really matter and I don’t really have any interest in correcting you for the heck of it.
Good night. 
I stopped at the first 4 replies, i hope im not repeating someone.
This is always the same old story: blizzard wants to take from one side and from the other.
Side 1) Ppl who wants competitive pvp BUT in an rpg, so part of the competition is to obtain that gear, and overpower the opponent not only with skill but also with the time and effort invested and with the choice of the right equip.
Side 2) Ppl who wants that particular part of the game to be like a normal FPS, where you can choose from every gear and for all ppl the same gear does the same dmg.
This will be a never ending story… blizzard will let ppl who casual PVP to have “a minimum” gear, not to be competitive but to not lose too straightforward. This way ppl with better gear will be satisfied of themself being “stronger” (even if it would be in an easy way, not for their intrisec merits on the gameplay), and ppl who casul pvp will have the illusion that “if i learn a little better i could compensate the gap in equip… just a little more…”, making them playing a lot and being cannon fodder for the others (whose will also play a lot for the satisfaction of “being stronger cause im good”).
Simply put, there is no answer for who is right because fairness is fairness but an rpg is an rpg: blizzard shouldn’t have introduced BGs or arenas, that should require an even play field, but something like castle siege and other things with bigger numbers, where a little or even big gap in equip means little in front of team coordination of big numbers of players…
They put an FPS experience in an rpg… this won’t ever be good… not only for equip but also for imbalance in classes…
Jito ur comments pls stop replying
The problem is that there were solutions that worked and noone complained about it - it was MoP and WoD. Noone asked for homogenized gear. Homogenized gear made gear distribution huge mess and made PvP less accessible because you need to play M+ and raids in order to get gear for PvP unless you are an experienced PvP player and can do well without it. Most of the newcommers either are stomped by PvE players or are these PvE players who stomp PvP newbs. Then they get to the wall which are a bit more experienced PvP players who outplay them.
If you win because of your gear then if you meet someone who is just better with the same gear you will 100% lose and this way neverending loop is created. You get these full M+15 geared “gatekeepers” at 1500 cr that literally pop every offensive and defensive CD at the same time and try to dps you down in the opener with no CC as setup comp or meele cleave where Warrior uses Heroic Leap and Charge as his first two globals.
This isn’t good situation for PvP and doesn’t achieve the goal of making PvP more attractive to PvE players it actually makes newbies try it and hate it immidiately. Imagine being fresh level 60 trying arenas and instantly being matched with M+15 geared PvE player who 3 shots you in the opener. Is it fun experience? In theory at this bracket new player should meet equally geared players because he gets the first upgrade at 1600 rating but in truth 1500 if flooded with clueless PvE players who just do the same thing as in dungeons - perform their PvE rotation.
Other side of the spectrum is that we had to play PvE and as I mentioned we took raider’s spots in raiding groups. Someone who really likes raiding would enjoy raiding with this group instead of me but I took it while forcing myself to do it. This is not healthy for the game. Also RPG argument is the most dumb currently because how 4 raid difficulties are RPG element, how M+ is an RPG element. You don’t go to boss and say “Yo dragon, go harder on us today and drop better dress for my fellow mage”. RPG doesn’t work that way.
I completly agree with you on that. Thats why i realy liked the pvp-system in legion.
Imo they created a „fair“ gap between under- and overgeared players. Farming your bis-gear felt rewarding, expecialy from an pve-point of view, but because of the scaling it didnt punish lower geared players by alot. They deactivated legys, proccs, trinkets and other broken thingys, what was healthy for the game.
You had different possebilitys 2 grind your gear and didnt get punished for having the wrong stats on it, because your stats changed in the arena aswell.
I did run alot of m+ 15 on several chars in bfa (and legion) and it felt awful (for examp.) if you had to clear underrot like 10 times, or even more, to obtain your bis weapon or trinket in every season - thats abit of an overkill and punishes „casual pvp-players“, like you mentioned, even more.
That’s true and it made unpopular specs in PvP strong. Demo Warlock was a real contender for example.
The only problem was not being able to adjust your stats but they could do something about that for example adding tab where you could adjust them according to a pool you get from them.
I feel that MoP and WoD gearing wasn’t bad either because the benefit of being high rated wasn’t advantage but having gear earlier. At the end even 1500 exped player had the same gear as gladiator and the only thing that mattered was skill. Even if you joined 2 weeks before season ended you could catch up and get full PvP gear in few days.
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They wrote a message https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/eu/209716 if anyone is interested (or hasn’t seen it).
Now vers is a thing, just for the love of god, remove rating gating on pvp gear, lower its ilvl to heroic, increase it to mythic in pvp instances so we can mostly farm via pvp if we want to.
I think blue post wanted to say that you couldn’t get 3 Vault rewards as conquest cap was lower than requirement for 3 chests xD
Everyone in Arenas forums maybe besides Jito and some PvE trolls want separation and you wouldn’t believe but plenty of people on General Discussion who play PvE want it too. Why can’t we get a survey sent via an email where people vote. I’m almost sure that separation will win.
Pve geared scaled down 1000% I’d be fine with… Pve hear doesn’t belong in pvp… You can’t scale down better pvp gear in a pvp scenario though lol. Random bgs should be looked at as a stepping stone into rated arena or rbgs imo.
I talked with alot of people about that point and they always told me that same thing - that you werent able 2 adjust your stats and werent able to play with an „unique build“, and i cant blame then.
If im not completly wrong, (if so prove me), there was a rating requirement for the weapons.
And thats a thing i realy do miss alot aswell. The current game is a complete grind fiesta and if you dont invest a realy large amount of time in pve you wont be able 2 have multiple chars on a „compeditive“ level.
Its just not healthy for the game.
Im fine spending alot of my time with grinding my bis-gear for pve, but that aspect should NEVER influence the pvp-environment by that high of an amount like it did in bfa.
Rating requirement for the weapons were removed early MoP so elite weapons became just recolors like elite sets.
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yes. it might be a struggle to get 32 wins for 3 reward options if you dont like rated pvp. but one option(like 7 wins or 15 loses?) will be easy to achieve by anyone.
I think the change is good because it drags people to do rated pvp for getting better rewards.
Yeah I recall that in earlier expansions the trade chat often had people looking for Arena partners to cap their weekly Conquest points.
I think that did a lot of good for Arena participation, and it didn’t seem like a heavy burden for anyone to go through those weekly games to cap their points.
And it is kind of the thing that comes alongside getting a PvP vendor design – you have to cap your weekly points! PvPers have done that for years, now it just gets emphasized again. It should be business as usual for many PvP veterans, I think.
Good change for PvP, mb people will start to do more ranked. And maybe RBG will be slightly not dead.
