+1.
I hate arenas
You can play RBGs
Casuals are punished
Too much time to get into a team and wait.
Ask your guild to play it with you. If you can raid together as 20 people why can’t you they try RBGs. As good raiding group you can reach 2k easily with some research.
I do not raid 
N
No time for that
I do not wish to pick any side in this debate but wow, youre killing mathematics and logic in the same sentence here.
Allow me to show you, very simply.
You have a pool of 100 people, equally physically able. These people have the choice between two different activities. They can do both if they wish. The two activities are :
- walk 5 step backs while holding your hands
- run 10 miles, then swim 4 more, and then write an essay about whatever topic you like.
It doesn’t take a genius to see that the first activity is much easier. Now, if only 17 people, out of 100, so 17% decide to actually compete in it and do it, your data will say “only 17% did this”. Now if 60% of the total people pick option number two and manage to do it, your data will say “17% did option 1, and 60% option 2”.
That doesn’t mean option 2 was easier. It just means that more people did it. Period. No interpretation of the results as to the difficulty is allowed because you do not have any information whatsoever regarding the % of the total population who attempted to do the activity.
If you take this back to the 1750 vs M15, if 17% of the game population TRIED and 17% made it, while 100% TRIED the M15 and 60% succeeded you could start assuming that 1750 is easier (and since the pool of people isn’t the same it wouldn’t even be certain but at least the assumption would be ok, even safe). The other way works too, if 60% tried M15 and did it, while 100% tried 1750 and 17% did it, you could assume 1750 is much harder, etc etc.
But since you have no data regarding the attempts you cannot twist percentages the way you did.
Not saying anything regarding your little battle.
Just respect numbers, it hurts me otherwise, hehehe.
I can tell you that most of these 17% are among these 60% xD
It’s good to know so much.
Anyway - if you want defend this troll. It’s your choice. When you see that PvP players wear 70% of M+ gear while PvE players eventually wear one trinket from PvP then you know there is something wrong. It’s obvious that 1 source of gearing is way easier and better. Even players who struggle with clearing Heroic raid can clear +15. I don’t understand why people defend that guy.
I always thought you are a smart guy but today I’m disappointed.
Please read.
I’m just hurt to see numbers twisted the way they were. An example as to how they work was in order. Nothing more.
If you really wish to know I do agree with most of what you say, especially one thing that I found very, very true, which was that do win decent gear through arena you need to already have the ilvl.
So again this was purely about those twisted numbers. Not about the actual topic. It is important to sound credible !
Then what is this. We both know that it’s truth and M+ was easy.
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Arena reminds me of an old squash saying: You don’t play squash to get fit, you get fit to play squash.
Which is similar to gearing for arena, although with the current system you could brute force yourself pvp gear minus the ilvl.
This is also what worries me. 
That in the end, I should still be looking to down Mythic Sire Denathrius is his weapon ilvl is much higher since there’s not going to be any PvP-specific stat. Or some down-scaling for PvE gear.
Yes so, if my knowledge is correct, 226 is max ilvl for 2.4k xp. I’m pretty capable of getting 2.1 I would say but 2.4 is possible perhaps but would take a lot of time. Realistically that means most of my pvp gear will be 220-223, so worse than m+ but has better stats. Except, stats generally don’t matter for some items (weapons) so those are worth getting from m+.
Basically I think, if you’re always glad XP, the system is relatively okay minus mythic raiders having an insane advantage (cos weapons are always a big improvement and the end bosses drop them afaik)… Its certainly better than BFA anyway. Getting to 2.1-2.4 for everyone else however, sure we’ll run into the old “oh they have mythic drest, guess I need to raid too” situation like in the last patch of bfa but I guess its less of an issue.
I think its going to be more of a “who can get lots of gear quicker”. There’s a chance I’ll struggle if I can actually have a break at xmas since I’ll be away from WoW too but I guess I’ll only lose 2 weeks - even though they’re like in the first month heh.
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Isn’t it mostly a player mentality issue?
I mean, the way the Arena system is designed, is that you start out with your useless questing gear and play some Arena. Because you don’t have very good gear, then you end up at a low rating. But as you play more games and earn Honor gear and Conquest gear, your rating starts to climb accordingly as you win more.
And by the time you have the best gear you can get at 2400 rating, then you move into that high-end rating bracket where further advancement relies on skill alone.
That’s sort of the way it’s supposed to be. Incremental progression as a result of time, effort, skill, and reward.
But the way players seem to approach it, is that they want to have the best gear possible before they even start playing Arena, and then they immediately want to establish themselves at a high rating – foregoing any climb from the bottom to the top – and otherwise just cement their place where they estimate they ought to be.
Not sure why it has come to be that way, that players are almost afraid to play Arena unless they have super amazing gear.
Personally, I wouldn’t call it that. Nexintus was replying to me, so I take it the point you are essentially trying to understand is my own.
I am not afraid to play any sort of Arena even when my gear is not that amazing. For instance, the only BfA season in which I participated in Mythic Raiding was the very last one, and I still managed my way to my desired goals, right? What my “complaint” is, essentially, is that PvE gear usually matters in Arena way too much. And this is not ideal, at least not for how I envision the Arena environment.
I know you could argue that, bar some expansions, PvE gear has always been good for PvP. But my most fond memories from this game are those from back when PvP was all about equal gear inside instanced PvP (provided of course you would do the Conquest grind) and then let the players decide the outcome.
Don’t get me wrong, I still feel very glad for Blizzard deciding to make such huge changes to the gearing process to aid the PvP playerbase, especially since that move was done 3 days before launch, and they had to change their plans for it. As far as I remember, they’ve never done such drastic changes in the past during the last moments of a pre-patch, right? But still, part of me was hoping to relive the late MoP/WoD days of queueing Arenas a good solid 95% of the time without feeling “disadvantaged” or “outgeared” by people who bring in stuff from a different type of content.
We will still need to play PvE but not as much. PvP is only a source of 4 conduits that aren’t really that good for most of the classes. Most of potency ones that usually matter the most drop from M+. So farming +15 for the best version is a thing.
Some unfortunately only drop from raid. Even though they might drop from LFR you of course want the best version possible.
Sure, understandable.
But we’ll see. The Beta testing doesn’t really give a clear indication of how the Live experience will play out. But my own gut feeling – for whatever that’s worth – says that PvP on its own will be a highly viable approach to gearing up, even if that’s all you do.
I don’t think PvEers – even those who dip into all sorts of PvE activities – are going to have any clear gear advantage over people who just do PvP, in PvP.
The PvP gear is just so good for PvP, and the acquisition of it is so approachable, that the concerns and worries about PvE aren’t so scary this time around, to me.
But we’ll see.
And i want Mythic gear from LFR.
I am in the right in wanting that. I also pay for the game.