Talent tree’s are just a time waste. Especially the new 100’s of talents to pick from. Sick of the swapping talents for each boss and the odd speciality talents for the novelty bosses. A flat base and maybe a few to swap would be better. Dumping utility for DPS 
YES. in order to get 3 rolls (which im in love with), i had to drop a dps talent.
mop talent trees was biult for each line for different stuff. and utility had its own thing so 3 rolls never cost me dps.
you are playing monk so you must know utility costs dps. this did not happen in preivous trees.
I disagree with this. This talent system has given me more build & talent diversity than ever. So many different builds that suit different scenarios (do I want radiance, do I not want it, do I want damage talents, do I want healing talents, do I want utility, do I skip it for DPS/HPS).
the one above mentioned something that i forgot.
i dont know how i forgot…
mop trees had lines, and in each one you had a choice. but the choices were always on the same category. a line for utility. another line for dps. etc…
the talents supported and added to our base talents.
in this case, you could play on your own style with different magic and different rotations, and it wont be just +5% crit. and at the same time, you wont have to think “what do i want, higher crit or better utility”. you could have both. the question was “WHICH dps boost i want and WHICH utility i want”.
This.
And no, I don’t really agree with your points OP. Other than the oposite of what you said… you think you want the talent system we had in BFA/SL, but you really do not.
well, not me (coz Im basically a happy camper) but I do think they maybe went abit too hard on professions…
Our class tree basically never changes so not there.
I didn’t really mean ‘utility’ but the bottom 2 class rows.
You can use so many combinations there and still get more or less the same output
You don’t have to use Bonebust, it’s good in like 1 situation then is a wasted point for 50 seconds.
But websites will say ‘use Bonedust!!’ for ‘AoE’ which fails to tell the whole story.
If you have 5 targets, they aren’t going to stay 5 targets for very long…
With 4-set i’m guessing Fists of Fury and Kick build is way better than Spin Build.
i didnt like it during mop, mostly because i was so used for tbc/wotlk system. but over time i put aside nostalgia, understood the system and realized its superiority.
at the end of the day, simple but effective system is always better. the previous system had just that.
No it is not. As people have explained to you further up. That you like the simple system better, is fine. That does however not mean it is better for others. The system we have now is based on the original one, and it gives people room to pick what they want. Or follow a guide if they prefer that.
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Yes, it was simple. Too simple. And effective? it was anything but.
Hell, Blizzard spent years desperately trying to give us back at least some of the customization that we lost with the MoP system by introducing weird and convoluted systems now universally referred to as “borrowed power”. People were complaining about them so much, every expansion Blizzard attempted something different only for the whole thing to fall on its face time and time again. This time around borrowed power is, at long last, finally gone and we’re back to solid talent system.
Also, this is more of an anecdote than anything, but I think it goes to show just how unspeakably terrible the MoP talent system was: In BFA I, as a Balance druid in PvE, had 3 talent rows that didn’t have a single useful talent for what I wanted to do. 3/7 talents were absolutely and completely useless. 3/7. That’s 43%. If this is as you say “effective”, then I don’t want to know what ineffective looks like.
Which rows ? Because i just looked at druid tree from bfa and every row had something for you.
*you all keep on talking about great “customization”.
Maybe you can change a talent or two (just like with mop tree), but 90% of the tree are “base talents” that you have to be insane not to take…
Work Orders. No I don’t feel like spamming trade chat for a crafter for this end game item I need and then having to tip them 5000g or whatever. Yes it’s cool that professions are relevant but let me buy it off the AH OR craft it myself WITHOUT having to rely on alts. I wanna be able to learn all professions on one character like in RuneScape! Maybe one day…
I think it’s ranked anxiety… like I’ve just been post poning my own shuffles until the last 2 days before reset or so. I think if it was unranked or it had the baby system that some games have where once you reach a certain rank (or MMR) you can’t drop below it like there’s certain threshholds like that, then that’d make more people wanna queue up. But yeah ranked anxiety is a very real thing. I think games like League are easier for people with ranked anxiety to play because like if you suck you can still win but I think in shuffle if you suck you just get targeted for 6 rounds and it feels awful. So for sure I can see why more people queued unrated shuffle in SL than now.
Kind of a red rag post, but hey here is my bull.
I have fifty main characters and some of play to enjoy all the facilities granted to use as part of our subscription. My game and I play just how I want. None of your business.
The telent tree has given me for the first time in an age the opportunity to colour my specilaisation skills to do what I want them to do. This is instead of the kiddy novelty over simplified junk that was before. I now can choose to avoid all the utility spells and focus on my fire damage. I have more spells than ever to do what I want and am able to rotate my damage spells without ever waiting to cast. I am having a blast. Maybe its cus you are struggling coping with dealing with having to make decision about more than three over simplified spells.
Professions have generally been pointless past the first 25 levels or so ever since they removed specialised weapon and crafting skills way way back. I never use the things to be truthful. I would prefer one base profession tree built from the ground up instead of breaking it into level distinctions. I seriously can’t be bothered with it and don’t need it. Never have other than my first greens levelling.
Its experience from actually playing that gives the best results. Guides suit some but for me I never use them. I never use add-ons or any legendary stuff. I start fresh with my new main every time I level another and will be rotating probably three characters at any one time, but using the full compliment of all my realm to aid and assist. Never had a true main in all my years playing. I delete a char when I need another no matter how advanced they are. Its only a game after all.
DF is not alt friendly at all wtf are you talking about? Try to get 418 gear on alts
For me it’s Bigger more open zones.
Although I think this is more due to the implementation than the desired item.
Zones Since around Legion have been quite small with convoluted navigation.
The DF zones are certain bigger (perhaps too big) but the navigation is still quite convoluted. There are mountains everywhere. I’ve never tried to just use a ground mount and travel from say waking shore to Azure Span, the distance and the mountains en route just put me off.
DF doesn’t really feel any more Azerothian than Shadolands did.
I wanted Grizzly Hills and Jade Forest but instead I’ve gotten mountains with some questing areas scattered in them.
If you seriously think the current talent tree isn’t an improvement over the wotlk one with useless talents and boring talents that have almost no effect on your gameplay/specific skills you are swimming in nostalgia and disqualifying yourself here. You can’t tell me you like looking back to times where you put 5 skill points into a single talent to reduce the cast time of your main damaging ability by 0.5 seconds (which was an absolute must, there simply wasn’t any option to not go with it) or 3 points to increase the critical chance of certain spells by 6%.
Nevertheless, I agree the current talent trees are better to have than not to have them, even if people just copy their builds off websites. Having all of those talents that have grown with your character (if not boosted) add identity to your spec, teach you how to play your class and really give a sense of progression. It’s a fact, though, that for max level they mostly don’t matter because people will look them up anyway and those who won’t pick the best talents will perform in a worse way. Playing worse in order to enjoy the game is simply not a thing. Those who pick whatever talents think they’re fun and have no idea about resources that tell them which talents to go for are the casual minority in the game.
The reason you see so many threads on this is because a lot of players engage in this playstyle. I enjoy soloing old content and removing that from the game would remove a lot of players.
You think you want that gone but you don’t.
Oh, trust me: I do.
I don’t know what insanity is making you lot farm the same mob by 1-shotting it every time every week and doing it 250 times for a single mount.
Players who solo instances provide no value to the game at all while they engage in that activity. They are not in the world, they are not playing with anybody, they are not pushing their gear, they are not contributing to the economy. They’re just gone - they may as well be offline for all intents and purposes.
If taking that away so you only have to farm it once or twice but get a little bit of gameplay along the way is going to make you quit, then I just don’t care. You’re not making the game better for anyone else by doing what you’re doing. But, as this thread states, I think this is something you think you want to do, but you don’t. You want to re-experience the old zones and get old rewards - things you didn’t get back then. You don’t want to farm the same boss 250 times.
I’d much rather have a community of players who engage with and love, say, MoP content. That play it, raid it, are present in it, have fun with it in a way where there’s a community there of some kind - and your 1-shotting cannot co-exist with that.
I also think running in and 1-shotting The Lich King, or Ragnaros, or whatever else, all by yourself, really cheapens the power of these villains.
True
Not to mention, these players would in a second buy the mog/mount/etc even from the shop for $ or dinar-like tokens, or from the Trading Post if they could
No one run those because love those old contents, but no other source for what they want
If lets say every raid and dungeon would scale to LvL 70 after dinging it, and you would be forced to team up like in the day when they were relevant would elevate them to “content”, not just relic of the past
Sure a few would moan, but when they not?
It is hardwired in a WoW player to whine and moan basically for anything