Monk changes in shadowlands, what do you think about them.
Especially the ww changes.
Im happy for the 2 Handers, but I hate that all specs are getting Touch Of Death , WW is so not viable in bfa, and since they are returning with the execute ToD for all specs isnt having a brewmaster tank enough ? Higher stamina first kill .
Its still very early to make a final judgment, but that is my only concern + I hope the Venthyr will have a nice ability !
Why?
Its something they stole from us xD
Dont remember if MW had touch of death, brew had for sure. But the thing is MW had stances that allowed it to deal damage, alot better damage. Maybe this is something to help out MW damage overall
what kind of 2h weapons do you think we will be able to mog? i really hope we can use swords but i doubt we will be able to
I’m really hoping they overhaul Serenity or make it viable. Hoping for a SEF scrap/replacement and a legion-like bug burst on long cd spender ability and last row passive talent something like chi explosion
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Before Legion WW was able to transmog polearms and staves just like BM and MW, so I guess those are the only 2h weapons we’ll be able to transmog.
The thing is , at the moment our burst depends on ToD combo , like my ToD goes to 500k I use ToD , blood of the enemy, then the mechagon cycle trinket, and then my normal rotation .
But I mean if BM gets ToD , and the spell will be an execute , wont it be useless for ww since the bm of the group will use it first bye bye boss bye bye dps
This is why WW will get Invoke Xuen as baseline - it’s expected to be your DPS cooldown replacement for Touch of Death. How it’ll actually end up being balanced is anyone’s guess.
The new (old?) ToD is meant to reward clever opportunities like blowing up an add for a bonus. For MW as an example it rewards a bunch of healing orbs that the group could use at a later time in the encounter. It feels like the intent is more for the utility than the damage.
IF WW get’s no sginificant baseline damage buffs going into Shadowlands, then this change will surely kill WW, ToD damage just outshines Xuen by a mile, hell even the 6% hit combo does.
Fwiw feedback is being collated in the general forums, so maybe drop a message in there - Shadowlands Class Updates
Original ToD was never meant to be used for DPS so we can probably expect more damage in other areas. If not, we have to let Blizzard know of course
I much prefer this, as it was mostly used to trade cds in arena, and our sustained damage took a hit in order to offset the ToD damage . Felt bad to pop it at the start of a fight and briefly top the meters before slowly sinking to the lower end
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I’d love for them to bring back Fists of fury STUN!!!
Hey all
After reading the monk v1 changes for Shadowland, i was vey disapointed not to see the core game play of Chi returning to MW. The identity of the class really lies in how it was played during MoP and WoD. A time where heals and Chi generation was very mana heavy but rewarding in Chi cost on greater spells. Mastering this and in combination with Mana Tea gave a very uniqe playstyle.
Another thing i would like to see back is Soothing mist movement healing and more stacks on Renweing mist and the return of uplift. Some very core abilities from the oldschool MW playstyle that would bring alot back to this class.
What do you think?
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NEW Invoke Chi-ji(Way of the crane) still cost 25% mana. Terrible terrible design. If they intend to keep a 25% mana requirement they should out right delete the entire ability and make something new and exciting.
A WHOLE 2 min CD! For something that cost 25% mana facepalm… They destroyed the healing and damage from the original way of the crane to make it raid friendly.
Way of the crane should not cost any mana if it is 2min. It is a state of mind or some bs rp they could just come up with.
High mana cost baseline crane is just insanity. I am so disappointing.
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Old Tigereye Brew back for ww!
Old Manatea back for mw!
and healing spheres ofc
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While your typical all time beloved and favored druid has a cool innervate and the all time favorite to the max Hpala wont use mana again, just holy power and they whine about it.
MW is high mana cost on everything, they want it to be like this.
My guess is, they let MW shine this patch and now they gonna make it a non-existent healer again as it was for a while.
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seems u still cant fist with 2H
I want chi back fro all monk specs, so we are a resource management spec again, not the boring EssenceFont thing we are now
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Hi all,
Here are my thoughts and suggestions on windwalker monks, including the (so far known) alpha changes. I mainly write from a PvE perspective (at which I consider myself an average player); I am not good in PvP.
I play windwalker since the start of BfA. It is a fun spec overall and I hope it will be further improved going into shadowlands.
- General rotation
1.1 For me, the general rotation feels good. Building Chi with Energy and then using Chi for more powerful attacks feels rewarding. The cooldown-reduction of Blackout Kick makes this filler purposeful. We are limited by Energy; planning carefully around our resources feels very fitting to the windwalker monk. Normally, this results in a slower playstyle with more down-time, which I definitely approve of; we have enough specs that become limited by the global cooldown, it’s good to have variety.
1.2 That said, with the addition of numerous azerite traits and procs this has changed, leading to situations where it is impossible to not either overcap energy or chi, which, even though it might still be a damage gain, does not feel good. I hope that when artefacts are introduced, they promote interaction between our abilities, or give us new ones, instead of adding random gains of Energy or Chi. Static increases however would keep the planning aspect of the spec.
1.3 One thing is missing in the rotation for me: an ability that either consumes a variable amount of Chi, one that enhances my next ability to consume more Chi, or one that is empowered by how much Chi we have used in the past. This is currently somewhat reflected in a PvP talent, Tigereye Brew, which becomes stronger for each 3 Chi consumed. I understand in past expansions there have been similar abilities, and it would enhance the playstyle and the spec fantasy to get an interesting brew (back)! It may also be a talent.
- Mastery
2.1 Our mastery increases the damage done by our next ability, if it is not a repeat of the previous ability. Currently, all our important abilities are on a cooldown, which makes breaking our mastery nearly impossible and inhibits us from playing around our mastery, making this stat feel not very relevant and boring.
2.2 A welcome change would be the addition of actual Combo Strikes: in addition to increasing damage, certain combinations of attacks would give a special effect, a stat bonus, a cooldown reduction etc. that would be valuable in different situations and would make planning around them interesting. Examples: If Fists of Fury is used directly after a rising sun kick, its channel time is reduced depending on mastery (akin to a haste proc). If rising sun kick is used directly after Fists of Fury, its cooldown is reduced by X seconds, increased by mastery. There are so many possibilities! Those interactions would be very interesting; some of them will happen naturally, but can be maximized if properly executed.
- Utility
3.1 Windwalkers do exactly what is in the name: they are mobile and agile like the wind, and they can harness its energy to empower their allies. This is already embodied in e.g. our Windwalking aura, and this theme should be extended.
3.2 We do sorely lack raid utility, except from mystic touch, which any monk spec can provide, and adding a raid-mobility cooldown based on our Windwalking aura would be awesome. For example, we could empower our aura with ‘Wake the Winds’ to increase the speed of all group or raid members for a short time while allowing them to hard-cast during movement. During its duration, everybody would hover on our Zen Flight cloud, because that cloud is awesome and everybody should get the opportunity to experience it 
Such a cooldown would be situationally strong and would fit right into the windwalker monk fantasy.
3.3 One more word about Windwalking: Please, please make it a passive effect and increase its radius dramatically. Currently it is an active buff that gets overridden by any other stronger buff, and its radius is way too small. If I use my Flying Serpent Kick to get away quickly from something bad on the ground, I effectively leave our poor DKs in the dust behind me.
3.4 The revamp of Touch of Death could also include a permanent Debuff on the target if it does not die instantly. It could increase the physical damage it takes from the monk or, even better, physical damage from all sources: ‘Mark of Death’, additional 5% physical damage taken from all sources. Now, wouldn’t we be suddenly popular with warriors for dungeon and raid bosses?
3.5 In order to strengthen the hybrid aspect of monks, It would also be interesting to add a stacking reduction to our next vivify heal (such as 0.1/0.15 s per stack, up to 15/10 stacks) when using tiger palm. Occasionally being able to use an instant/fast vivify on ourselves or allies at the expense of energy would be a welcome addition, and could e.g. replace expel harm as baseline. It would also make our basic rotation more impactful, because each tiger palm gives us a stacking buff to be used at our convenience.
- Damage
4.1 Currently, we do lack sustained damage in single-target situations. In order to not make us too powerful in AoE, buffing abilities that hit only one target would be reasonable. The most obvious is Rising Sun Kick; this ability does currently consistently less damage on a pure single-target fight than Fists of Fury (of course, this is affected by azerite traits). We drop this ability from our rotation almost entirely in favor of Spinning Crane Kick in AoE anyway (except for enabling Whirling Dragon Punch, if talented). Therefore buffing it would make a lot of sense. Tigerpalm and Blackout Kick are other options to be buffed, they feel a bit too weak. If I understand the alpha changes correctly, Blackout Kick is to be buffed, which is a good start.
4.2 The change to Touch of Death also likely allows tuning around sustained damage rather than burst windows, which I think is good.
4.3 One word about Fists of Fury and the return of the Windfury totem: trinkets, spells etc. hat affect autoattacks always turn out poorly for monks, because we spend a lot of our time channeling Fists of Fury (in AoE also Spinning Crane Kick). Therefore, autoattacks should continue during Fists of Fury for easier balancing.
- Talent rows and abilities
5.1 In my opinion, talents should enable different playstyles; utility, defense, the choice between single-target damage or AoE, burst or sustain. With that in mind, here are my thoughts about the different talent rows as they are now in the alpha build:
5.2 T15 (Eye of the Tiger, Chi Wave, Chi Burst):
Nothing wrong with the row in my opinion. Chi Wave for strictly single-target, Chi Burst for multiple targets, Eye of the tiger for single-target with the convenience of not having to have an extra button to press.
5.3 T30 (Celerity, Chi Torpedo, Tiger’s Lust):
Chi Torpedo gets you further if you don’t need the dispel from Tiger’s Lust, that’s good. Celerity feels underwhelming, maybe add avoidance to the talent when roll is used, as in the azerite trait Exit Strategy. This may be situationally used for unavoidable, heavy AoE damage.
T45 (Ascension, Fist of the White Tiger, Energizing Elixir): this row is also nice, choice between consistent energy regeneration, additional Chi builder, or extra Chi and Energy on a cooldown.
5.4 T60 (Tiger Tail Sweep, Good Karma, Ring of Peace):
Ring of Peace has good utility, Tiger Tail Sweep sees uses in PvP, as far as I know. Now, about Karma: it directing a dot to the target based on damage absorbed leads to it being not a defensive, but an offensive cooldown in raids. This does not feel good; the baseline addition of Fortifying Brew will only make it worse. Instead, it could put a stacking healing absorb on the target equaling the damage absorbed by Karma. This way, it would still be good in PvP and would be an actual defensive in PvE (except for maybe niche situations). Good Karma healing the monk is good; additional value to its defensive nature.
5.5 T75 (Inner strength, Diffuse Magic, Dampen Harm):
This row, with small improvements, would see more variety in use. For example, Dampen Harm should work equally against physical damage as Dampen Harm works against magical damage, but only against physical damage. It should then remove bleeds and other physical debuffs and put them back on the target; ‘Reverse Harm’? That would be a more interesting choice: in this dungeon/this encounter/this PvP match, which one would I benefit more from? In that regard, Inner Strength as the passive ‘All-rounder’ is a conceptually very good idea; it should maybe reduce damage by around 3-4% per stack to be more useful in fights with consistent damage.
5.6 T90 (Hit Combo, Dance of Chi-Ji and Rushing Jade Wind):
This row seems to be intended to make a choice towards single-target and AoE damage, which makes a lot of sense.
That being said, Hit Combo feels currently just wrong. It does not feel rewarding to keep up, rather very punishing to drop, and is not noticeably in our rotation beyond that whatsoever. This would be the perfect place to put a new or old brew that does something to enhance sustained single-target damage!
Dance of Chi-Ji is very good azerite trait, enhancing our signature AoE ability. However, as with the azerite trait, it is a bit ‘feast or famine’: sometimes it procs very often, sometimes it hardly does when you would need it. In order to make this talent sustained and shift the agency of maximizing it to the player, it could be changed to increase the Mark of the Crane Debuff. For example, if it were to increase the damage done by Spinning Crane Kick by 70% instead of 10 %, at 5 stacks it would deal 450 %, the same as a Dance of Chi-Ji proc at 5 stacks currently (if my math checks out). That way it would still costs 2 Chi, but it would be under the control of the player when to it build up for maximum AoE Effect. It would also synergize nicely with Energizing Elixir.
Speaking of the Mark of the Crane, it is often bugged. Would it be easier to code if it would be a stacking buff on the monk, instead on the target? The PvP talent Alpha Tiger works in a similar manner; maybe that would get rid of its problems.
Rushing Jade Wind: This talent is in a very awkward spot between a single-target and AoE talent. It is simply not got enough for sustained AoE. Instead, one a row with one talent for sustained single-target damage and one for good AoE, a burst talent that increases damage done for a short time would be a welcome addition to have ample choice for dungeons and PvP, and maybe occasionally for raid encounters with priority targets.
5.7 T120 (Spiritual Focus, Whirling Dragon Punch, Serenity):
This is the big, altering playstyle row. Let’s start with Whirling Dragon Punch: it’s awesome. It feels like a satisfying combo, usable when Fists of Fury and Rising Sun Kick are on cooldown. It feels so good that many argue it should be baseline. If not, there needs to be other options that give meaningful choice.
One of those could be Serenity. Currently, it is hampered by two deficits in my opinion: too little damage and awkward interaction with our mastery, which discourages us to use the same ability twice in a row, which we might want to during Serenity, e.g. using Blackout Kick twice to reduce the cooldown of Rising Sun Kick. Instead of making our mastery punishing, Serenity should scale with mastery, but provide a different, even opposite effect, for a refreshing, totally different playstyle! For example, it could read like this:
‘Enter an elevated state of mental and physical serenity for 15 sec. While in this state, your energy regeneration stops. You deal (Mastery % * 2) increased damage and healing, and all Chi consumers are free and cool down 100% more quickly, but you do not benefit from your normal mastery. Instead, using the same ability twice in a row extends serenity by 0.5 seconds + x, increased with haste.’ There are of course many other possibilities, but Serenity somehow interacting with our mastery in a more profound manner would feel satisfying.
Spiritual Focus should be replaced. I am not sure with what, a talent changing how Storm, Earth and Fire works would be interesting; maybe making it a free toggle with some changes to the mechanic. Or using the current azerite trait Fury of Xuen to enhance the summoning of Xuen to buff us (e.g. during the duration of Xuen the monk gains a big haste buff). I am sure there are good ideas out there.
- Zen flight
6.1 It’s cute, I like it; please make it either usable to slow fall speed even without flying or increase it to normal mount speed (this goes for all specs of course).
I believe now is the right time to provide as much ideas and feedback as possible, and I would feel bad if I would not do so. Monks are fun, we can make them even better!
Best Regards,
Lu-Tze
PS: For those who understand: Yes I will transmog a sweeping brush as soon as we can use 2-handed weapons, suggestions for fitting items welcome
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