What exactly is wrong with Retribution?

Classes Paladin
1

I’ve been maining Ret over several Characters since Warlords of Draenor, raiding for the first time in Legion. Suffice it to say, I still ride that 12% Damage Buff of 7.1.5.

But looking at this forum the consensus by people more knowledgable, experienced and propably better than me is clear. Ret is kinda bad (to avoid funny language that’d upset our mighty moderation gods) at the moment.

Now me, who’s not been raiding since late Nathria sitting at a comfy 242 Ilvl, I’ve been doing fine in the content I do partake in.

So what, exactly, is wrong? I want to understand.

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2

I don’t raid so my PvE views are purely based on mythic+ dungeons.

Ret has never been a sought after dps spec. The spec is not top dps, doesn’t have high utility and is melee. No one invites a ret paladin because they are a ret paladin. Never seen anyone say “lets get a ret paladin” ever.

3 Likes
3

some specs are better for pvp others better for pve.

4

It’s the most stupid sentence I read in every topic about balancing some classes.
Do you want to say survival hunter, holy priest, warlock or rogue is bad on pve or pvp? I can’t choose hmm…

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5

Because they fill the spot off better - the same style - dps classes. Like warriors or DKs.

It lacks alot of utility tools other classes have (in this example, Shout/Rally or gripping). The damage isn’t all that great without heavily depending on other buffs like a priest’s PI/Windfury. This bieing said, yes we all know PI is OP. But even if given too other classes PI has much much more value…

Ret in current state (in my opinion) feels prety lackluster and bieing an old ret main (rerolled in SL) I find it a shame…
Buttttt not to worry, Prot Pally is still busted as ever :rofl:

6

Warlock is prety mehhhh in PvP right now. The other classes are ridiculous all over the place :bear:

7

Ret dmg is honestly not to bad at the moment, especially aoe. The issue though for ret as a spec in a pve context is the complete lack of utility, ret have literally nothing anyone would ever want in pve. Take m+ as an example, why would anyone in their right mind invite a ret paladin instead of a survival hunter? Problem is that the developers really don’t understand their own game and they simply don’t know how to fix all the problems this game have.

5 Likes
8

Got CE on Sylvanas with ret, switched to havoc midway this tier because we lacked one.

Time to put those two in perspective for this raid. Dmg wise they are similar with ret leaning a bit more onto aoe fights while havoc is more onto ST fights. So far so great.
CDs: 2 min burst vs 3:20ish CD that is sustain dmg. Fights this tier have a mix of both so there is no clear winner here.

Defensives: Here comes the real deal. Blur is 1 min cd (45ish sec if talentd), Immunity or passive leech, Darkness, Magic Resist. Compared to that, Ret has: Immunity, Shield that goes for extra dmg. Havoc is a clear winner here.

Mobility: Do we have to mention how OP is a 6 horse right? Right? Compared to fel rush with baked in move speed, disengage and venthyr portal (since rets are kyr or necro) we can’t even compare those. Havoc wins here as well.

Raid utils: Havoc: aoe stun, ST stun if talented, imprison (no use this tier), Darkness, Magic Dmg Increase. Ret: Auras, ST stun, LoH, SaC. While loh and sac are pretty nice cds, the magic dmg increase is insane and darkness if the casino is good can be the strongest healing cd in the game.

So in reality, ret isn’t that bad. It’s dmg is still a bit higher than havoc but overall brings utility that’s situational compared to mandatory as in havoc’s case. Lack of movement abilities also requires better knowledge of the fight for better positioning and completely dissalows some “Gamer” moments.

Example like fast reassigning a group stack on lihuvim (mythic) if there is no Push/Pull guy because of earlier death. Ret doesn’t have the mobility to do that. Monks, dhs, mages, warriors, ferals, owls, rogues can though.

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9

If you master ret you can definitely get gladiator or hoth or cutting edge. You just have to perform way higher than for example a rogue/priest in pvp or the meta classes in PvE.

Been playing ret paladin since wotlk, I have seen a lot of ups and downs. We are definitely better than we sometimes used to be

2 Likes
10

Ret damage is great in general I find. The only issue is why would a m+ group or raid want to take a Ret unless there’s a specific mechanic to cheese with bubble?

If auras were tweaked in a way to be a bit more meaningful that could maybe help make us be considered a little more.

11

Pretty much this, you will not have issues in pvp or pve but you may have to make yor own groups if you want to do the content, rather than relying on playing FOTM OP spec and get free invited.

12

To be honest, they are a wheelchair class. Anyone who has decent skill and mobility laughs are rets. Solution, dont play it, play class which has a higher skill ceiling. Because lets be honest, rets skill ceiling isnt exactly high.

The class needs a rework to be honest. They cant increase mobility when they have such a crazy one shot mechanic and ability to self heal for fun. So reduce burst damage and healing, increase mobility and give them a snare.

5 Likes
13

Imo its the clunky rotation a lot of melee(DK,Enhance,arms) have it these days rng proc rotation style problem is they have to assume u get a lot of procs otherwise dps would be broken if you did and they did the rotation on low procs. The problem comes when u dont hardly get any procs u have this huge downtime these gaps feels terrible.

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14

This. And breakable defensives.

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15

Ret is the relic of the past basically
It’s based on the phisolophy that you as a warrior of light support your comrades on battlefield with your off healing and blessings and all that stuff
but the problem with that is
Modern game have no such place for that in m+
cause we all know how ideal group for m+ looks and ret toolkit doesn’t fit that
and in raid enviroment the same situational utility can be brought by prot or holy pala.

16

Make crusader aura give 20% unmounted movement speed too.

2 Likes
17

And while your are it, rework retribution Aura… It’s useless and a selfish aura.

WE NEED GROUP BUFFS!

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18

Just slap a 3% crit + damage and healing done to it and ret paladins would maybe get invited to m+

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19

For me, I still feel like a wheelchair class! I want paladins to go back to the MoP days when we have an excellent selection of mobility talents:

Give us back the first row of Speed/Mobility talents from Mist of Pandaria (Charger is the dumbest thing in the world for PvP - kind of obvious you’re gonna make a swap or CC if you suddenly spawn on a giant glowing horse):

  • Speed of Light - 45 sec cooldown
    Increases your movement speed by 70% for 8 sec.
  • Pursuit of Justice - Instant
    You gain 15% movement speed at all times, plus an additional 5% movement speed for each current charge of Holy Power up to 3.
  • Long Arm of the Law - Instant
    A successful Judgment increases your movement speed by 45% for 3 sec.
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20

Those arent really good talents anymore concidering todays standard. Remember we had emancipate to free ourself from slows and roots, now its only freedom.

Long arm of the law when judgment had a 4 or 6 sec CD? Sure, but today its 12.

Then add the uber mobiliy of other melee classes. Warriors pingponging across the map, DKs pingponging you? Rogues that blinks more often then a mage?