What got us to this point?

Community General Discussion
1

I came back to the game because I’ve heard a lot of positive things about TWW and although the world, quests and gameplay feel great the community lies in shambles.

The ‘gogogo’ mentality fostered by the Mythic+ timer has dug its roots so deep that if you can’t keep up with a tank pulling the entire dungeon in one go, you’re likely to get kicked. People bail after the first boss if an item, which will be obsolete in a week, doesn’t drop. Even something as simple as a “hello” or a “/wave” is often met with silence.

The only difference between a follower dungeon run and one with real players is that things happen slightly faster.

I’ve read some of the “opinions” regarding socializing in a different post and I honestly haven’t a clue how we got to this point. A lot of people can’t seem to grasp the fact that there’s a healthy, enjoyable middle ground between ignoring everyone around you and becoming best friends who share all your secrets. A little banter always boosts morale.

So many potentially amazing moments are being missed daily, moments far more rewarding than getting your pre-season BiS trinket. Next time someone drops a “hi” in chat, say hi back and maybe it won’t be the same dull dungeon you’ve done a million times already.

In a world that has every tool to socialize we’re more anti-social than ever. We’re all playing an MMO alone.

69 Likes
2

Tbh even im on verge of just up and leaving.

12 Likes
3

Ok but…
Where did you read this would be different???
It’s OBVIOUSLY not.
It’s never gonna stop being like that, not because of the players.
Only Blizzard can actually do something like that.
Huh?
The expac has a few days, what do you mean you heard good things about it?
Huh??

4

Looks like I chose a good time to take a break and to check out gw2 expansion instead.

6 Likes
5

Seeing the interviews and the direction developers are going makes me positive regarding the future of the expansion, especially in the storytelling aspect, which, in my opinion, thus far has been an improvement over the not so recent BFA and SL.

4 Likes
6

This is not true.

It started long before M+ was a thing. It became really popular in WotLK already when people rushed through heroics for their daily quests and reputation farming. It was exactly the same as it is now. WotLK heroics were super trivial (except for the ones they added later, like the Pit).

This simply has nothing to do with M+. People today don’t want to spend an hour or three in a dungeon, especially not with random players. The content is also trivial. The TWW heroics can be steamrolled even now, at least as long as people pay a little attention.

No, I don’t. I’m nearly always in a Discord voice chat with WoW friends when I play the game. WoW today is more social for me than it was many times in the past. Talking is much more social and personal than typing in a text chat while trying to play the game.

12 Likes
7

Firstly the gogogo mentality has been there since around Wrath, I remember an Utgarde Keep run where the first thing someone said was FAST RUN.
It got too much for me in WoD with the Everbloom wall jumping nonsense.
Sure M+ exacerbated it in Legion.

Another factor is the entire internet got more toxic over the last 15 years.

Why it’s getting so bad in wow though is that the PuG scene is feral, no moderation at all. This drove the more friendly players either to stop doing grouped content all together or to move to communities like Scared of Dungeon, Fail Train, Dungeon Dojo and others leaving a greater percentage of less friendly players behind in the PuG scene.
Grouped content is thriving but it’s in Communities and Guilds (aided by Discord). No shortage of Tanks and Healers there. Instant Queues more-or-less. Chatting for those that want it, quiet for those that want that.

6 Likes
8

I agree, so far everything story and quest related was a huge improvement. And not only over BfA and SL but also DF I think. DF was already much better but it wasn’t consistently good. Plus they bombarded you with so many things at the same time I had no idea what to prioritise because they hadn’t developed the different quest markers for importance yet (when I played it).

Anyway I’m happy with the expansion so far and since I don’t like the gogo rushing playstyle anymore I’ll just do Delves.

6 Likes
9

True, but it would be wrong to not imply that the timer encourages this mentality across the board.

Nobody didn’t say anything about hours in a dungeon. As I said you don’t need to engage in hour long dialogues about your life. And slowing down slightly to let your healer catch up won’t hurt the extra minute or two you’d spend there…

True, but that doesn’t change the fact that a little banter in chat would make a dungeon seem livelier. Sure, it would be nice if everyone were down to join a Discord call and have a laugh, but sometimes a simple message can suffice.

3 Likes
10

I’ve been dungeon spamming since they invented the RandomDungeon tool. I’ve spammed dungeons as a healer - I really wasn’t playing anything else just dungeons because I enjoyed it so much. And most of the time we had some basic conversation. At least a ‘Hi’ and ‘Thank you’. Or ‘Ugh I hate this dungeon’
In my experience toxicity increased over the years drastically. And the rushing increased too. After people got into Mythic+ it got worse as far as I’ve seen.
Now I don’t enjoy it anymore. I haven’t even been to any dungeons this expansion (besides follower dungeons) . I think I’ve burned myself out in dungeons overall during BfA and SL Mythic+ spamming.

10 Likes
11

I could write a weakaura that says “Hi” back.

2 Likes
12

I feel that it would be mostly just fluff, though. I mean, what kind of banter would you expect in a dungeon that takes 10-12 minutes to complete with people you’ve never met before and will probably never meet again?

Players sometimes say “hi” and “gg” or “bb”. If they type more, it’s usually because they’re unhappy about something. The currently puggable content is so trivial there is no need for coordinating anything. CC is almost never needed, hardly anyone interrupts anything anyway, and people just want the loot or the achievement or the XP.

This isn’t limited to WoW, though. You see the same in most or all online games. If I want social interactions in any gaming space, I have to put effort into getting them: joining Discord servers, messaging people and then staying in contact with them, contributing to forums or subreddits, joining guilds and then making an effort to maintain relations, etc. (It’s the maintaining of social contacts where I think people at times fall short, including me.)

The social outlets are there, they just require effort and an investment of social energy. They don’t happen without that.

1 Like
13

So many times it was stuff like “Sorry guys no idea what to do on this boss, can you explain?” - Then people explained and we had some nice conversation while doing it.

Or “Sorry guys first time I’m trying a tank be patient and no clue what to pull” - Then people would give the tank tips.

Or “First time trying a mage” - then people gave him tips about rotation or whatever.

It was really nice. That’s what I don’t really see anymore. The contrast is huge. The instant kick comes soo fast. People have no time to “waste” anymore. Before, this was what made it fun for me.

4 Likes
14

Here’s an interesting story from earlier today: we had a leaver in the city of threads iirc, so I whispered them and asked kindly why do they do that. Their response was, “it doesn’t affect my experience in the game so why not? It’s how we do it in other games like PoE. And it’s an efficient way to farm the item I want and I can do it fast as a healer”.

I was so shocked, I didn’t even respond to them.

I like TWW a lot, so I try not to get affected by this awful mentality but God damn.

5 Likes
15

I am still not sure why you’re hellbent on the sentiment that I’m implying dungeons should be gateways to deep friendships that last. A simple flavorful message every now and then makes things seem less empty.
I remember there was this one guy a couple years back in a pretty chill group; everything was going smoothly, and the guy said something along the lines of “GUYS, I FORGOT TO TURN OFF THE STOVE. MY FOOD IS BURNING. I NEED TO GO. THE FIRE MAGE BURNED HIS FOOD.” I still don’t know if it was just a funny excuse to leave due to urgent matters, irl, but I remember getting a good laugh from that, and these small interactions make your time in a dungeon you’d otherwise forget pleasant and memorable. Whether it’s a fire mage burning his food or as you said some people just saying “gg” “bb” “hi” it’s the small things that matter.
I’m also well aware that in order to build a lasting friendship, you’ll need to put in the work, but that is not at all what I’m going for in this thread.

7 Likes
16

True gogogogo mentality is rooted in our everyday lifes.
Stupid society, social media and corporations are pushing “race to the grave” lifestyle, so they can earn more money and achieve economical growth.

3 Likes
17

It does seem to have got steadily worse over the years. I was in a group yesterday, and all were low geared. The tank pulled every single mob between the first boss and the second boss. Then the DPS and healer couldn’t get near due to AoE splash damage, and we wiped. In the end we had to run back in, and it took twice as long because of the tank’s dumb rush.

1 Like
18

There is a built-in Adventure Guide and Dungeon Journal that has bite-sized key points for every boss, separated by role.

Yes, I’ll explain encounters when people ask, and I have always done that, but I understand why others may not want to do that when the information is there for everyone, directly in the game. It takes less time to read those 3-5 key points for your role than it does to ask others to explain encounters.

Helpful people also learn quickly that offering pointers is often ignored or decidedly unwelcome. My pug experiences aren’t really all that negative, though. Most people simply never talk and just play. Out of the ~60 HC dungeons I’ve healed in TWW so far (farming some choices for my other spec), there was only one where someone acted up.

I still see this sometimes. Since I’m usually the healer, I tell them it’s fine and mark mobs for them. But again, I can also see why other healers or dps may not want to do that in queueable pushover content. The expectation is that people who play tanks read up on stuff or watch a video summary, maybe run a dungeon as dps first, utilize the follower dungeons, or play with friends or guild mates before they pug.

It’s meaningless fluff to me. I have no interest in fake, empty socializing. If it’s not genuine, why bother? It makes no difference to me if someone says “hi hf” or stays quiet.

Like Annaconda said, I could make a macro that emits “Hello fellow adventurer! I hope your day is going well and may the Loot Gods favor you today!” when I hit my group buff keybind. How would it enrich the social experience?

Now if someone messages me after a run and we end up chatting about something, or exchange information, or add each other to our friend lists because the run stood out positively in some way, THAT is something that enriches my social WoW life. (It happens sometimes and I’ve made friends that way.)

1 Like
19

That’s just seems like an incredibly pessimistic and cynical view on things… Dismissing these kinds of greetings or small talk as “fake” or meaningless that is. But these simple interactions actually play a big role in building a sense of community. Just like saying “good morning” to a coworker or neighbor, a “hi” in a game, even if routinely, makes the environment feel friendlier and much more welcoming. These small gestures create a positive atmosphere where people feel included and connected, even if the interactions aren’t deeply personal which IMO is infinitely better than a soulless, deafening silence.

Imagine walking into a coffee shop every day and being greeted with a friendly smile and a “how are you?” from a barista. Even if it’s just a routine, it makes you feel noticed and valued, and it’s a big part of why you enjoy going there. Same thing applies for running dungeons or any other form of content, even if they aren’t super genuine, they help create a space where people feel comfortable and part of something bigger (sounds like an MMO crazy I know). So, while it might seem like “fake socializing”, it actually enriches the experience by making it more human and not another follower with slightly more advanced AI.

7 Likes
20

I suppose not only people changed but everything and it’s not really Mythic+'s fault. I was already studying at the university when we first got internet at home. Reading up about stuff wasn’t a thing when I first started playing.
You can see how old this game really is. The whole world changed and its still running…
At the beggining you would stop to chat with any random person you met in the world. I wouldn’t do that anymore.

1 Like